Russian Orloffs

[desertmarcy]

Yes, you are absolutely correct on location being key! Even just 2 hours south of Tucson, a friend of mine had trouble selling the Dorkings she decided to get. Either nobody knew what they were, or did not want to pay a decent price for chicks, so she sold them and out of frustration with the depressed economy/sales there, finally decided to just keep a few birds for herself and not stress about selling chicks.

 

[jla0499]

PM me if anyone has any Orloff hens near East TN.

 

[RiddleMe]

I took 3 Orloff pullets to the Tucson show and put them in the sales area Saturday. They were in lay or about to start. I listed them for $40 each or 3 for $100. Not one buyer! Admittedly, they did not have the best spangling, but still, what does it cost to raise a bird to laying age (especially on organic feed) nowadays? I did not want to take them all home, so I donated one to the $1 raffle. I was too busy packing up my birds to see who won her. My pair that I entered in the show were 1st and 2nd place. Competing only with one other pair from someone else. And someone else had a pair on the sales table for $25 for the pair....guess that's why people thought mine were overpriced....

This reminded me of something I have wondered about, if there is no SOP, or even commonly accepted/proposed SOP for the Orloff, then how are they judged? I know non-recognized breeds can be shown, but... Is it just judges preference? For that matter, what about non-APA sanctioned shows, like the little county fairs, do they still use the APA standards, but you just dont earn points?

 

[Rare Feathers Farm]

This reminded me of something I have wondered about, if there is no SOP, or even commonly accepted/proposed SOP for the Orloff, then how are they judged? I know non-recognized breeds can be shown, but... Is it just judges preference? For that matter, what about non-APA sanctioned shows, like the little county fairs, do they still use the APA standards, but you just dont earn points?

There is for ABA.

I know when I've shown my LF birds, the judges were looking at the BANTAM standard...

You can't get points for them (in LF) as they are not recognized as LF (you can for bantams).

As the only person with bantam Orloffs in our area, I have no other competition as far as breed goes...it's my birds against my birds. And because in the bantam class they are AOCCL, I'm up against bantams which are a lot more popular.

The "best" you can do is in "all other breeds" with the LF. I have shown LF several times and seen others bring LF Orloffs but again, no points because they're not recognized.

 

[ashandvine]

I was asking some judges here about this and the movement to get them readmitted. I was told that the easiest route to go about doing this is to just get out the old standard and petition for it to be reinstated with birds being shown that meet that standard. If the question really is whether or not to adapt that standard then it gets tougher but the three judges [one retired] I spoke to- at the same event and same conversation, they all said easiest route is as stated above.

On 'good' news front there are three Orloffs here, alive and not too bad after some antibiotics. I am not normally a fan of this at all but it was that or lose them all. I really like these birds so far. I think they might be some of the best I have seen, though it is early yet. I should hurry up and get pics I guess.

Something of note: One of the orloffs I have, which I believe is a cockerel, has a dark smudge down the front of his shank. I haven't seen this before. For those of you with a few years of experience, what are you thoughts here?

 

[RiddleMe]

I was asking some judges here about this and the movement to get them readmitted.  I was told that the easiest route to go about doing this is to just get out the old standard and petition for it to be reinstated with birds being shown that meet that standard.  If the question really is whether or not to adapt that standard then it gets tougher but the three judges [one retired] I spoke to- at the same event and same conversation, they all said easiest route is as stated above.

On 'good' news front there are three Orloffs here, alive and not too bad after some antibiotics.  I am not normally a fan of this at all but it was that or lose them all.  I really like these birds so far.  I think they might be some of the best I have seen, though it is early yet.  I should hurry up and get pics I guess.

Something of note:  One of the orloffs I have, which I believe is a cockerel, has a dark smudge down the front of his shank.  I haven't seen this before.  For those of you with a few years of experience, what are you thoughts here?

I wonder how much of a push back would occur with an attempt to get them re-admitted vs admitted as a new breed. On of the statements I have seen on BYC with some frequency is that the current Orloff is not the same bird as what was originally in the SOP; the impression I have gotten is they don't mean the current bird just isn't "up to snuff" but rather that it literally is not the same breed.

 

[NYREDS]

I wonder how much of a push back would occur with an attempt to get them re-admitted vs admitted as a new breed. On of the statements I have seen on BYC with some frequency is that the current Orloff is not the same bird as what was originally in the SOP; the impression I have gotten is they don't mean the current bird just isn't "up to snuff" but rather that it literally is not the same breed.

The latter: Russian Orloffs, as depicted in this thread were never admitted to the APA Standard. At one point a breed known as Russians was included in the Standard but they were removed from the Stndard over 100 years ago & they bore no resemblence to the Orloffs. Completely different type & a defferent comb.
A previous poster asked if non-recognized breeds were judged by "judge's preference" & that's essentially the case. Speaking for myself in those situations condition is primarily what I consider. If there's a group I try to look for a consistant type but since there's no standard description appearance is all there is to go on.

 

[RiddleMe]

I wonder how much of a push back would occur with an attempt to get them re-admitted vs admitted as a new breed. On of the statements I have seen on BYC with some frequency is that the current Orloff is not the same bird as what was originally in the SOP; the impression I have gotten is they don't mean the current bird just isn't "up to snuff" but rather that it literally is not the same breed.

The latter: Russian Orloffs, as depicted in this thread were never admitted to the APA Standard. At one point a breed known as Russians was included in the Standard but they were removed  from the Stndard over 100 years ago & they bore no resemblence to the Orloffs. Completely different type & a defferent comb.
A previous poster asked if non-recognized breeds were judged by "judge's preference" & that's essentially the case. Speaking for myself in those situations condition is primarily what I consider. If there's a group I try to look for a consistant type but since there's no standard description appearance is all there is to go on.

Thank you for your answers, I was also that previous poster.

 

[ashandvine]

Thank you NY Reds. I was under the impression that they had been dropped but were the same bird, just different in type. Well, I guess that changes the game a bit.

 

[RiddleMe]

I wonder how much of a push back would occur with an attempt to get them re-admitted vs admitted as a new breed. On of the statements I have seen on BYC with some frequency is that the current Orloff is not the same bird as what was originally in the SOP; the impression I have gotten is they don't mean the current bird just isn't "up to snuff" but rather that it literally is not the same breed.

The latter: Russian Orloffs, as depicted in this thread were never admitted to the APA Standard. At one point a breed known as Russians was included in the Standard but they were removed  from the Stndard over 100 years ago & they bore no resemblence to the Orloffs. Completely different type & a defferent comb.
A previous poster asked if non-recognized breeds were judged by "judge's preference" & that's essentially the case. Speaking for myself in those situations condition is primarily what I consider. If there's a group I try to look for a consistant type but since there's no standard description appearance is all there is to go on.

I finally found an old copy of the SOP with the original Russian standard. Some of the very noteable differences between the APA recognized Russian and today's Orloff:
Comb - rose, narrow at the rear, without the usual spike
Wattles - long and pendant
Muffling - full, thick, and heavy
Tail - moderate, erect, and free from long sickle feathers
Legs - dark lead color; inclining to yellow not a disqualification

Key points are the Orloffs walnut comb combined with the muff/beard make it genetically almost impossible to have the long wattles that were required for the rose-combed Russian. For folks interested in the genetics, there are lots of papers on silkie genetics that explain it (here's one http://www.chickencolours.com/What Wattles-lowres.pdf) Add to that the dark lead legs vs the standard of bright yellow legs on today's Orloff... Looks very much like the belief that they were the same breed is an Internet "truth".