Quote:
That black mottled hen? I know, right?! LOL
That black mottled hen? I know, right?! LOL
Russian Orloffs
- Thread starter Mrs. Fluffy Puffy
- Start date
Quote:
That black mottled hen? I know, right?! LOL
NO! I want MAHOGANIES!! lol Stormy is doing MUCH better!!
That black mottled hen? I know, right?! LOL
NO! I want MAHOGANIES!! lol Stormy is doing MUCH better!!
HaikuHeritageFarm,
Here is the information. There is some information that I agree with but then there are some that I disagree with. I don't agree with where it say that the had a Walnut Comb, modified rose comb (raspberry type) would have been better.
by Craig Russell,
Following text with permission from SPPA Bulletin, 1997, 2(2):5-6
This is a bearded, muffed, walnut combed breed. . . . In the West the Orloff has been generally considered to be a Russian breed, although some modern poultry writers have concluded that they might be a German creation. Both suppositions are probably wrong. As with the naked neck and many other breeds, Germany was the land of the Orloff's perfection--not the land of its origin. And while Russia made the breed known to Western Europe and America, Persia (Iran) was the probable site of its development. However, at one time it was wide spread in Central Asia and as recently as the early eighties I saw fowl of this type while watching footage on the war in Afghanistan. The earliest mention of this breed that I know of was published in 1774. The description was obviously that of the Orloff, but at the time the breed was called Chlianskaia, which was probably a corruption of or based on Ghilan, the Persian province where the breed was most common. Its present name is probably taken from Count Orloff-Techesmensky, at one time a well-known Russian horse breeder and livestock enthusiast. This despite the fact that Orloffs were well established in Russia before his time.
The well-known English poultry writer, Edward Brown, wrongly, but probably sincerely (if not very modestly), claimed to have introduced the breed to the West in 1899.
Not surprisingly, a fowl as distinctive as the Orloff had attracted the attention of other visitors and had been known for better than thirty years in America (and elsewhere) usually simply as Russians (a name unfortunately, but not surprisingly, also applied to other breeds from the East).
These early importations were principally black--a variety not mentioned by Brown--and they had not created a great stir in poultry circles. Also judging from some of the things that Brown said about other breeds, his work was often based more upon enthusiasm than upon exhaustive knowledge. This slight lapse can be forgiven as his work popularized the breed and expanded our knowledge of Eastern breeds in general.
Nevertheless, the first North American standardization was as Russians not as Orloffs. Unfortunately interest in the breed declined and the APA dropped them from the Standard.
While I've been known to have had some association with the Orloff breed over the years, I'm not the only one to collect old standards. Several times other poultry people have told me about the Russians and about how much like Orloffs they were, except for the rose comb. It's true the APA did call the comb rose, but when you read the description it was clearly what today would be called a walnut, cushion, or strawberry comb--not a true rose comb.
When first imported from Russia, Orloffs were heavy boned, hard muscled, meat fowl that reminded Brown of Malays or Indian games (now called Cornish). However, in American and German hands they were bred more along utility lines and height was reduced and egg production was improved. Still the breed resembles the Malay and that fowl certainly was a major contributor to the Orloff's genetic makeup. Its other ancestors are less obvious and without access to Persian sources may never be authoritatively named. However, Brown stresses that this is a "powerfully built fowl, capable of defending itself in the extreme." And a German breeder once told me that this was originally a game fowl. So, muffed and bearded games, which are themselves quite old, could be at least part of the answer.
If Orloffs in the West never achieved widespread and long lasting popularity (at least outside of Germany) they were certainly popular in some areas and periodically caught the public interest.
This was one of my late friend, Vic Corson's, favorite breeds and I wish I had copied some of his material and taken notes on some of the things he told me. I do remember that in the early part of the century a hatchery here in Pennsylvania hatched Orloffs in seven colors and nothing else. It billed its home town as the Orloff capital of the world. I don't recall the town, but I believe it operated for more than twenty years and finally closed around the time of World War II.
This is an old, distinctive, and useful breed and I hope we can help get it back in the APA standard. The ABA currently recognizes three varieties. The British Standard lists four varieties--Black, Mahogany, Spangled, and White. There are at least three others--Black Breasted Red (with a Cinnamon hen), Mottled, and Buff. The last was probably an American creation and is almost certainly extinct, but, with a little effort and a Buff Chantecler, probably could be recreated. A recreation could also be attempted with a Buff Wyandotte, a Buff Cornish, or some other Buff fowl and an incredible amount of work. The ABA calls Mahogany [the] Black Tailed Red and it is roughly the same color as a Rhode Island Red. It is probably the Orloff that was the first breed to sport the solid red color. The ideal Mahogany is a brilliant, dark, reddish brown. Today this is a very rare fowl in the United States and Canada and most Mahoganies are colored like commercial Rhode Island Reds, but we can bring back the breed and the color. The future deserves an Orloff.
"An Article by Will Hally (The Russian Orloff, Feathered World Year Book 1917-1919) has a great deal to state on the breed and from one who had a lifetime connection with Russia this cannot be disregarded. The main facts from this source are:
* There was an article by the well known breeder Joseph Pettifer in The Feathered World Year Book for 1915, and this was the first written for publicity.
* The breed is dual purpose and not just a table bird as suggested by many who did not really understand that the Russians developed the fowl for its prolific egg-laying capabilities. Eggs were much more important to the Russians than table qualities. However not all strains are prolific and one poultry man understood that they laid nice sized eggs of white or tinted color, but "not a great quantity", but he only judged them and had not kept them
* In the winter months, when other breeds stopped laying, the Orloff continues to produce eggs in good numbers.
* April hatched chicks tend to started laying at the end of October and continued through the winter.
* Moulting hens come quickly back to lay as the molt was finishing so the minimum production time was lost.
* The laying capacity was high under all conditions, whether free range or backyard.
* Chicks are hardy and rear well, even in a hot, dry summer.
* The breed is classified as "heavy" but has been found to be a sitter, although this does not comply with the normal view, and one famous breeder puts it into the Sitter category as normal for a heavy breed.
* For a table breed the flesh is fine and well flavored, being quite white.
* In judging it is essential to adhere to breed characteristics (loosely termed 'Type') and place color as a secondary factor."
Above information from backyardchickens.com
Chris
Here is the information. There is some information that I agree with but then there are some that I disagree with. I don't agree with where it say that the had a Walnut Comb, modified rose comb (raspberry type) would have been better.
by Craig Russell,
Following text with permission from SPPA Bulletin, 1997, 2(2):5-6
This is a bearded, muffed, walnut combed breed. . . . In the West the Orloff has been generally considered to be a Russian breed, although some modern poultry writers have concluded that they might be a German creation. Both suppositions are probably wrong. As with the naked neck and many other breeds, Germany was the land of the Orloff's perfection--not the land of its origin. And while Russia made the breed known to Western Europe and America, Persia (Iran) was the probable site of its development. However, at one time it was wide spread in Central Asia and as recently as the early eighties I saw fowl of this type while watching footage on the war in Afghanistan. The earliest mention of this breed that I know of was published in 1774. The description was obviously that of the Orloff, but at the time the breed was called Chlianskaia, which was probably a corruption of or based on Ghilan, the Persian province where the breed was most common. Its present name is probably taken from Count Orloff-Techesmensky, at one time a well-known Russian horse breeder and livestock enthusiast. This despite the fact that Orloffs were well established in Russia before his time.
The well-known English poultry writer, Edward Brown, wrongly, but probably sincerely (if not very modestly), claimed to have introduced the breed to the West in 1899.
Not surprisingly, a fowl as distinctive as the Orloff had attracted the attention of other visitors and had been known for better than thirty years in America (and elsewhere) usually simply as Russians (a name unfortunately, but not surprisingly, also applied to other breeds from the East).
These early importations were principally black--a variety not mentioned by Brown--and they had not created a great stir in poultry circles. Also judging from some of the things that Brown said about other breeds, his work was often based more upon enthusiasm than upon exhaustive knowledge. This slight lapse can be forgiven as his work popularized the breed and expanded our knowledge of Eastern breeds in general.
Nevertheless, the first North American standardization was as Russians not as Orloffs. Unfortunately interest in the breed declined and the APA dropped them from the Standard.
While I've been known to have had some association with the Orloff breed over the years, I'm not the only one to collect old standards. Several times other poultry people have told me about the Russians and about how much like Orloffs they were, except for the rose comb. It's true the APA did call the comb rose, but when you read the description it was clearly what today would be called a walnut, cushion, or strawberry comb--not a true rose comb.
When first imported from Russia, Orloffs were heavy boned, hard muscled, meat fowl that reminded Brown of Malays or Indian games (now called Cornish). However, in American and German hands they were bred more along utility lines and height was reduced and egg production was improved. Still the breed resembles the Malay and that fowl certainly was a major contributor to the Orloff's genetic makeup. Its other ancestors are less obvious and without access to Persian sources may never be authoritatively named. However, Brown stresses that this is a "powerfully built fowl, capable of defending itself in the extreme." And a German breeder once told me that this was originally a game fowl. So, muffed and bearded games, which are themselves quite old, could be at least part of the answer.
If Orloffs in the West never achieved widespread and long lasting popularity (at least outside of Germany) they were certainly popular in some areas and periodically caught the public interest.
This was one of my late friend, Vic Corson's, favorite breeds and I wish I had copied some of his material and taken notes on some of the things he told me. I do remember that in the early part of the century a hatchery here in Pennsylvania hatched Orloffs in seven colors and nothing else. It billed its home town as the Orloff capital of the world. I don't recall the town, but I believe it operated for more than twenty years and finally closed around the time of World War II.
This is an old, distinctive, and useful breed and I hope we can help get it back in the APA standard. The ABA currently recognizes three varieties. The British Standard lists four varieties--Black, Mahogany, Spangled, and White. There are at least three others--Black Breasted Red (with a Cinnamon hen), Mottled, and Buff. The last was probably an American creation and is almost certainly extinct, but, with a little effort and a Buff Chantecler, probably could be recreated. A recreation could also be attempted with a Buff Wyandotte, a Buff Cornish, or some other Buff fowl and an incredible amount of work. The ABA calls Mahogany [the] Black Tailed Red and it is roughly the same color as a Rhode Island Red. It is probably the Orloff that was the first breed to sport the solid red color. The ideal Mahogany is a brilliant, dark, reddish brown. Today this is a very rare fowl in the United States and Canada and most Mahoganies are colored like commercial Rhode Island Reds, but we can bring back the breed and the color. The future deserves an Orloff.
"An Article by Will Hally (The Russian Orloff, Feathered World Year Book 1917-1919) has a great deal to state on the breed and from one who had a lifetime connection with Russia this cannot be disregarded. The main facts from this source are:
* There was an article by the well known breeder Joseph Pettifer in The Feathered World Year Book for 1915, and this was the first written for publicity.
* The breed is dual purpose and not just a table bird as suggested by many who did not really understand that the Russians developed the fowl for its prolific egg-laying capabilities. Eggs were much more important to the Russians than table qualities. However not all strains are prolific and one poultry man understood that they laid nice sized eggs of white or tinted color, but "not a great quantity", but he only judged them and had not kept them
* In the winter months, when other breeds stopped laying, the Orloff continues to produce eggs in good numbers.
* April hatched chicks tend to started laying at the end of October and continued through the winter.
* Moulting hens come quickly back to lay as the molt was finishing so the minimum production time was lost.
* The laying capacity was high under all conditions, whether free range or backyard.
* Chicks are hardy and rear well, even in a hot, dry summer.
* The breed is classified as "heavy" but has been found to be a sitter, although this does not comply with the normal view, and one famous breeder puts it into the Sitter category as normal for a heavy breed.
* For a table breed the flesh is fine and well flavored, being quite white.
* In judging it is essential to adhere to breed characteristics (loosely termed 'Type') and place color as a secondary factor."
Above information from backyardchickens.com
Chris
Last edited:
- Mar 12, 2010
- 321
- 180
- 286
I put a 10lb. BBR Malay cock over spangled hens last year. I bought the cock special for this mating as he had too high a tail to use in my Malay pens. I hatched about 35 BBRs and Mahoganies. One stag is going over the spangles and another over two F1s. Tail angles looked too low as chicks but come up nicely as they feathered. Very nice Malay-type strawberry combs and respectable muffs. I sold two pair at the Syracuse show. I'll pick my keepers in the next few days and probably send the rest to local auctions. Tom
Chris, I have seen that piece too. I guess I just read it differently.
Quote:
Any pictures, by chance? I would love to see them! I wonder what it would cost to ship a pair to Alaska?
Any pictures, by chance? I would love to see them! I wonder what it would cost to ship a pair to Alaska?
I think this is awesome getting this information as someone who is wanting to start breeding orloffs in the near future. I hadn't come across those articles so it was a great read for me. I'm gonna start compiling all this info for future reference and it would be great if we could come to some type of "standard" so we could all be going for the same thing.
Quote:
I agree Tom. I wonder...how many breeds have been dropped from the APA Standard? Off the top of my head, I can't think of any.
I think it would be reasonable to try to find the latest version of standards in countries where the breed is currently accepted and compare them as a starting point.
I am also wondering if there is any interest in starting up a website/club where we can compile all of this information, pictures, sources for birds, etc. I know there is supposed to be a "Club" but to my knowledge no one that has inquired of the sole contact has gotten any response. I certainly haven't.
I agree Tom. I wonder...how many breeds have been dropped from the APA Standard? Off the top of my head, I can't think of any.
I think it would be reasonable to try to find the latest version of standards in countries where the breed is currently accepted and compare them as a starting point.
I am also wondering if there is any interest in starting up a website/club where we can compile all of this information, pictures, sources for birds, etc. I know there is supposed to be a "Club" but to my knowledge no one that has inquired of the sole contact has gotten any response. I certainly haven't.
Quote:
I agree Tom. I wonder...how many breeds have been dropped from the APA Standard? Off the top of my head, I can't think of any.
I think it would be reasonable to try to find the latest version of standards in countries where the breed is currently accepted and compare them as a starting point.
I am also wondering if there is any interest in starting up a website/club where we can compile all of this information, pictures, sources for birds, etc. I know there is supposed to be a "Club" but to my knowledge no one that has inquired of the sole contact has gotten any response. I certainly haven't.
Setting up a free forum is pretty easy and whoever sets it up can make as many admins as necessary so we all can do what is necessary for the forums. I don't have any experience at doing websites so I can't help there. I did notice that orloff club but like you said it just had a contact info. I'm just guessing by that, that they may not be that serious about preserving this breed. I got to head out to the grocery store but I'll be back in a bit. I can look into setting up a forums specifically for orloffs. I've had a few years experience of setting up free forums, at any time they can be upgraded and given more options.
***I just quickly set one up http://orloffchickens.messageforums.net/ I will hurry back and do some work with it. So, maybe we can start compiling some stuff today/tonight
.
I agree Tom. I wonder...how many breeds have been dropped from the APA Standard? Off the top of my head, I can't think of any.
I think it would be reasonable to try to find the latest version of standards in countries where the breed is currently accepted and compare them as a starting point.
I am also wondering if there is any interest in starting up a website/club where we can compile all of this information, pictures, sources for birds, etc. I know there is supposed to be a "Club" but to my knowledge no one that has inquired of the sole contact has gotten any response. I certainly haven't.
Setting up a free forum is pretty easy and whoever sets it up can make as many admins as necessary so we all can do what is necessary for the forums. I don't have any experience at doing websites so I can't help there. I did notice that orloff club but like you said it just had a contact info. I'm just guessing by that, that they may not be that serious about preserving this breed. I got to head out to the grocery store but I'll be back in a bit. I can look into setting up a forums specifically for orloffs. I've had a few years experience of setting up free forums, at any time they can be upgraded and given more options.
***I just quickly set one up http://orloffchickens.messageforums.net/ I will hurry back and do some work with it. So, maybe we can start compiling some stuff today/tonight
Last edited by a moderator:
- Nov 2, 2010
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I'm going to get a Russian Orlolff this Spring! March 1st I'm going in and ordering it with my mom
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