Salmanella-Need proper info

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by IonaFarm, Aug 23, 2010.

  1. IonaFarm

    IonaFarm Out Of The Brooder

    78
    0
    39
    Jun 13, 2010
    People are asking us questons about the outbreak and our eggs/chickens. I would like the proper info to stay informed and be able to answer questions.

    Will be picking up 18 new chicks Wed. from the hatchery. This is the first group of chicks not from the feed store so I want to be prepared.

    I plan to start them off on medicated feed. Need to read up on the brand available. Any info for getting a good start with these little ones would be greatly appreciated.[​IMG]
     
  2. 1/2DozenWings

    1/2DozenWings Out Of The Brooder

    64
    1
    31
    Oct 12, 2009
    Butler county
    Wow, those are tall orders!

    I think that the jury's still out on this strain of Salmonella......suffice it to say that commercial "farming" practices invite new and more virulent diseases.

    Nobody with free ranging chickens can say that they are Salmonella enteritidis (SE) free, even if they have been tested, because the birds can forage and pick up the bacteria at any time. Laying hens with SE may not even appear to be sick. Salmonella is to chickens like Tetanus (Clostridium) is to horses: they are symbiotic.

    I keep my coops clean, I feed a high quality chicken feed appropriate for their age (Purina Layena, in my case), and they eat whatever they find t/o the day. I used Start n Grow (Purina) w/ a coccidiostat in it for the first 8 weeks. I always have food and CLEAN water available for them.

    When they appear to be sick, I don't give antibiotics to them, because I think that their immune systems need to be challenged if they are to develop into a long term flock at my farm. If some don't survive a microbial assault, those that remain may have some immunity.

    I sell farm eggs, too. While I can't say that---because I think my hens are healthy their eggs are SE-free--- I can say that they are happier and healthier and so their eggs are healthier than any commercially produced egg, even the so-called "free range eggs".

    Maybe the practice of eating only partially-cooked eggs should be revisited.....but I LOVE sunny side up eggs. We humans know better, but we still push the envelope, or perhaps I'll just speak for myself!
     
  3. PunkinPeep

    PunkinPeep Chillin' With My Peeps

    3,642
    19
    229
    Mar 31, 2009
    SouthEast Texas
    Just so you understand, the medicated starter normally medicates in an attempt to prevent coccidiosis; it has nothing (that i'm aware) to do with salmonella prevention. In my personal experience, i am finding that chicks do very well if exposed to the ground earlier than later, giving them a chance to develop resistance to cocci-causing protozoa early, like they would if they were raised by a broody hen.

    Other than that, keeping them safe from predators is the main thing. Chicks do a pretty good job raising themselves for the most part, if you keep them in good food and water. And BYCers are very helpful when something unexpected comes up.

    If you're interested, my signature links to a spot where i blather on about my experience with medicated feed and coccidiosis and baby chicks.

    I'm excited for you getting your chicks! They're so much fun, every time!
     
  4. Nostalchic

    Nostalchic Chillin' With My Peeps

    My Pet Chicken sent out an email yesterday or today with some good info/explanations about salmonella in large egg operations vs backyard flocks. It's on their website, check it out.
     
  5. silkiechicken

    silkiechicken Staff PhD Premium Member

    Quote:+1

    "medicated" only aids in the prevention of cocci protozoa from reproducing in the chicks intestines. They NEED exposure to the soil containing cocci, or the meds do nothing for them. Meds do not stop cocci from over coming their natural immunity, or even kill them, just prevents them from breeding inside the chicken. Thus you still need to keep clean pens and keep moisture down so they do not ingest enough to make them sick.

    I just tell people that the risk is low in birds with better immune systems as a result of low density housing and proper care, but that there will always be the risk if one chooses to eat under cooked eggs. But hey, raw fish can give you worms, and I eat raw fish if I can get it because it tastes so dang good.
     
  6. PunkinPeep

    PunkinPeep Chillin' With My Peeps

    3,642
    19
    229
    Mar 31, 2009
    SouthEast Texas
  7. silkiechicken

    silkiechicken Staff PhD Premium Member

    Well, if there is an active infection, they will act sick, but at this very moment, I bet you will test postive for E.coli and staph. But because you have a healthy immune system, those one or two hundred bacteria will be overwhelmed by the millions of millions of billions of other good bacteria and your immune system.
     
  8. 1/2DozenWings

    1/2DozenWings Out Of The Brooder

    64
    1
    31
    Oct 12, 2009
    Butler county
    As I said, the jury is still out on this serovar of Salmonella, having first appeared in significant #s in the 1980's, coincident with massive factory farming operations.

    For the latest info, check the CDC's website. They will provide links to original, peer-reviewed research on this organism and its relationship to chickens.

    You could also try your state's Cooperative Extension service, but they might lag a bit.

    While the University of Georgia @ Atlanta is THE location of the latest poultry science research, much of that is somewhat bent toward [the promotion of] commercial operations, simply because the USDA funds the work.

    I also recommend Gail Damerow's book "Storey's Guide to Raising Chickens". Some practices seem a bit odd in today's world, like acidifying the water with vinegar to encourage the growth of beneficial bacteria (that presumably like acidic conditions better), but, in light of this recent media craze regarding eggs, it is enlightening.

    Chickens are tough! and so are humans with good immune systems!
     
  9. Mac in Wisco

    Mac in Wisco Antagonist

    3,479
    50
    246
    May 25, 2007
    SW Wisconsin
    Quote:Here's a link to the article i assume you speak of.

    http://www.mypetchicken.com/backyar...la-a-concern-with-backyard-chickens-H19.aspx?

    Very interesting. I hope all their facts are correct. I had read somewhere else that a chicken with salmonella will not exhibit obvious symptoms, but according to this article, they exhibit very obvious symptoms. [​IMG]

    I would definitely like to know which is true.

    That is poor information. The author is talking about salmonella in general, but is mixing info about different strains of salmonella bacteria.

    Salmonella in general is a type of intestinal bacteria that can cause disease in animals and people. There are thousands of different strains, a few hundred of which commonly infect people. Many are host specific, they only infect certain species.

    The two of common concern in poultry are Salmonella Pullorum and Salmonella Eteritiditis.

    S. Pullorum affects chickens and cannot be passed to people. It can be devastating to a flock with high mortality rates among young chicks and pullets. S. Pullorum testing is the basis of the National Poultry Improvement Program to prevent the unchecked spread of this disease. This test is usually required to move birds across state lines or to show them at the local fair. For My Pet Chicken to say that their birds are free of "salmonella" because they are S. Pullorum tested is misleading.

    The other strain of concern is S. Enteritiditis. This is the the concern of the latest egg recall. Otherwise healthy chickens can carry it, but it can cause serious problems in people. Testing for SE is also available under the NPIP program, but is not one of the base tests required for participation in the program. SE can be contracted at any time so birds that tested good last week would not necessarily be free of it next week. It would take continual monitoring. The FDA passed regulations last year that requires all farms with more than 3,000 hens to monitor the environment for SE. For the largest of farms (over 50,000 hens) the new regulations just went into effect in July. As a last note, and as many here have noted, properly cooking eggs kills SE. There is a consumer warning label that is required to be on every carton of eggs sold.

    My Pet Chicken's take on this is that overcrowding on factory farms is the chief cause of "salmonella" infections in chickens and their recommendations for prevention are to give your birds plenty of room and feed them good feed. That is completely off base. Salmonella exists in the environment and can be contracted numerous ways. When done properly, the biggest advantage to a caged layer system is that the birds are segregated from each other, from rodents and wild birds, and from the manure which should prevent the transmission of disease. The downfall to this is that it is hardly humane, and due to the large stocking rates, improper management can lead to rapid propagation of disease throughout large numbers of hens and subsequently through very large numbers of people.

    Your flock is not immune just because you have few birds and give them plenty of space. The largest carriers of salmonella are rodents, wild birds, flies, and other chickens. These can be just as prevalent in your backyard as they are on large farms. A small flock owner doesn't run the risk of sickening thousands of people though...

    Here is what should have been said about prevention:

    Practice bio-security. Don't visit other coops and poultry exhibitions and traipse disease back to your own birds. If you must go, wash your clothes, sterilize your shoes (especially clean out any manure in the treads), and shower before visiting your own flock. Wash your hands before handling birds or eggs and wash your hands afterwards also.

    Rodent control. Trap and bait rats and mice. Traps help to monitor the population and bait will kill the hard to trap ones. Clean up any junk piles or overgrown areas in your yard that can harbor rodents. Keep feed in rodent proof containers. Clean up any spilled feed promptly. Put feeders up at night. Exclude rodents from the coop by patching up any holes and keeping the structure tight.

    Don't attract wild birds to your yard. They can be hard to exclude, but obviously things like having a wild bird feeder in the same yard as your chickens isn't a good idea.

    Control flies. Dry manure doesn't attract many flies. Wet manure attracts them and provides breeding habitat. Keep the inside of the coop dry. Fix any leaky waterers and clean up spills promptly. If you compost manure, cover the pile with a heavy layer of lawn clippings or leaves to discourage the flies. Hydrated lime can be used to treat problem areas and kill fly larvae.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2010
  10. PunkinPeep

    PunkinPeep Chillin' With My Peeps

    3,642
    19
    229
    Mar 31, 2009
    SouthEast Texas
    Thank you, Mac! That is very helpful!
     

BackYard Chickens is proudly sponsored by