SALTWATER fishtank help!

[007Sean]

Test your water for nitrates. If your using tap water, it can contain nitrates and phosphates. DI and RO water should not have any detectable amounts of nitrates or phosphates. High phosphates and nitrates will lead to out breaks of GHA (green hair algae).

I don't quite understand your previous post, was the .25 ppm of ammonia during the cycle or is that your reading now?

I would consider setting up an algal turf scrubber. Also, using only DI/RO water for both changes and top off.
How many pounds of live rock are you using? I would also increase the amount of live sand to the system.

 

[Kkrista123]

Test your water for nitrates. If your using tap water, it can contain nitrates and phosphates. DI and RO water should not have any detectable amounts of nitrates or phosphates. High phosphates and nitrates will lead to out breaks of GHA (green hair algae).

I don't quite understand your previous post, was the .25 ppm of ammonia during the cycle or is that your reading now?

I would consider setting up an algal turf scrubber. Also, using only DI/RO water for both changes and top off.
How many pounds of live rock are you using? I would also increase the amount of live sand to the system.

All reading are perfect except the ammonia constantly reads between 0 and .25. I am switching to RO water. My live rock fills the tank a little over halfway. I should really just post a picture. I will take one tonight!

 

[007Sean]

That's what I thought your getting mini cycles from somewhere....and yes, I understand the nitrogen cycle. In saltwater, it's a little different than freshwater. Trapped food or maybe the livestock? could be the source. How many inches of fish do you have per gallon of tank water?

If your biofilter is establish, you wouldn't be seeing the readings your getting, unless overstocked, decaying matter or over feeding. Those are the main cause of ammonia being generated in an established aquarium. And from what you have posted as to the number of livestock you have, it shouldn't be overstocked, unless your fish are all 4" to 6" or larger in size.
I hate to keep asking all the questions but unless I know everything that's being done or what has been done, it's hard to pin point the source from which the problem is originating and to give a complete knowledgable answer. Otherwise, it's just taking shots in the dark.

Nitrite readings, while they are important, they are not as important in saltwater because of the difficulty of the nitrite being absorbed into the blood stream via the gills....in freshwater it presents a greater danger, the ion exchange is greater in freshwater fishes. The main things to monitor in saltwater systems is ammonia and nitrate when determining whether a tank has established a working biofilter.

Do you keep a logbook of everything you do with the tank?

 

[Kkrista123]

That's what I thought your getting mini cycles from somewhere....and yes, I understand the nitrogen cycle. In saltwater, it's a little different than freshwater. Trapped food or maybe the livestock? could be the source. How many inches of fish do you have per gallon of tank water?

If your biofilter is establish, you wouldn't be seeing the readings your getting, unless overstocked, decaying matter or over feeding. Those are the main cause of ammonia being generated in an established aquarium. And from what you have posted as to the number of livestock you have, it shouldn't be overstocked, unless your fish are all 4" to 6" or larger in size.
I hate to keep asking all the questions but unless I know everything that's being done or what has been done, it's hard to pin point the source from which the problem is originating and to give a complete knowledgable answer. Otherwise, it's just taking shots in the dark.

Nitrite readings, while they are important, they are not as important in saltwater because of the difficulty of the nitrite being absorbed into the blood stream via the gills....in freshwater it presents a greater danger, the ion exchange is greater in freshwater fishes. The main things to monitor in saltwater systems is ammonia and nitrate when determining whether a tank has established a working biofilter.

Do you keep a logbook of everything you do with the tank?

Help is always help, thank you!! I’m definetly not over feeding as I’ve been on a reduced feeding cycle for the tank. I have not switched to RO water, just treated tap water. Although I do use very exspensive water treatments because I have found that when it comes to water treatment, you’re paying for what you get. I have 5 fish left in the tank and my nitrate has dropped down to 60 from 160. The fish in here now I know will survive and I won’t lose anymore but I need to get down to 0 still and still want to know as much about how it happened so I can protect my tank from it happening again. Very useful info about nitrates affecting salt vs fresh fish, I never knew that! I have been recording everything about the tank since the nitrates really sky rocketed although my hubby helps maintainer the tank and is not into writing anything down. So I do have a log on the tank but only with half the tank info :/ Still convincing him to just write it down instead of paying 100’s of dollars trying to fix issues with treatments and water changes after they happen! Current stock= scooter Benny probably an inch long, 2 clowns maybe an inch and a half long and a purple tang that’s at about 4 inches now along with a wrasse that’s also 4 inches. I have little snails and crabs that eat all decayed fish. I’ve had about 4 or 5 die and I’ve never seen a body, my clean up crew is really good at eating leftovers.

Also I forgot to mention I still have my urchin. Not sure is he changes anything but it is a Rose Pink urchin so it’s one of the larger guys.
Thanks for the help!

 

[007Sean]

Your not over stocked for fish. If one dies and you can't find it ...doesn't mean there's not any ammonia being produced. Even a small fish takes awhile to decay and the scavengers can't eat it up fast enough to not produce some ammonia.

I don't want to sound like the 'tang police' but a 4" tang needs alot of area to roam. A long tank is better than a square tank. Even a 55gal is iffy for one 4" tang.
I had a 6" Hippo tang in an 180gal display and 100gal sump, that he eventually out grew.

Switching over to DI/RO will improve your water quality. Replacing your filter media at regular intervals will also help. Contaminates build up over time and when it reaches the saturation point, they will leach back into the tank.

You may want to run activated carbon once or twice a month for (24 hrs) helps take contaminates out and 'polishes' the water but don't over do it. It can remove lots of the essential trace minerals.

If don't know about this site I highly recommend joining it. http://www.reefcentral.com/ Lots of knowledgable peeps on it. I use to be on there all the time back in the 90's. Just so you know, I got my degree in Marine Biology.

ETA - urchins can produce alot of waste that's detrimental to water quality, especially in small closed loop systems. Urchins are also very susceptible to nitrates and become easily stressed.

 

[Kkrista123]

Your not over stocked for fish. If one dies and you can't find it ...doesn't mean there's not any ammonia being produced. Even a small fish takes awhile to decay and the scavengers can't eat it up fast enough to not produce some ammonia.

I don't want to sound like the 'tang police' but a 4" tang needs alot of area to roam. A long tank is better than a square tank. Even a 55gal is iffy for one 4" tang.
I had a 6" Hippo tang in an 180gal display and 100gal sump, that he eventually out grew.

Switching over to DI/RO will improve your water quality. Replacing your filter media at regular intervals will also help. Contaminates build up over time and when it reaches the saturation point, they will leach back into the tank.

You may want to run activated carbon once or twice a month for (24 hrs) helps take contaminates out and 'polishes' the water but don't over do it. It can remove lots of the essential trace minerals.

If don't know about this site I highly recommend joining it. http://www.reefcentral.com/ Lots of knowledgable peeps on it. I use to be on there all the time back in the 90's. Just so you know, I got my degree in Marine Biology.

ETA - urchins can produce alot of waste that's detrimental to water quality, especially in small closed loop systems. Urchins are also very susceptible to nitrates and become easily stressed.

Thank you! I know my tang has been pushing it for a little bit. Once she's any bigger I will rehome. I knew it would come to this, I was just growing her out until she's too big and then I'll throw in a baby hippo or maybe a dwarf angel or another kind of tang. Only wanted to grow her out in my tank because she's one of the nicest colored purple tangs I ever saw!!

 

[SillyChicken]

Hi, I have salt tanks too. Sounds like Sean's been a big help and suggested most of what I would have suggested. Have you tested your tap water (not tank water) to see how it reads? I also had issues like you are describing and installing a RO filter for my water source has made a huge difference in managing my water quality.
To me, 3 months may be enough time to cycle, but it is not long enough to "establish" enough bacteria in the tank to process the waste of as many fish as you started with. I would double up on your cleaning crew (make sure you toss in extra clean empty shells of various sizes for the hermits). Do you also have corals in the tank? They can also contribute to the load. Die off and sloughing from anything can raise levels as well.

I currently have a 30 gal bio cube which has been established for about 3 yrs. It's doing really good and now only requires the addition of water top offs and some chemical treatments. I have rubble rocks in the sump in the back of the tank and a little floss filter on top to polish the water, otherwise the bacteria in the rocks and sand do all the work along with my clean up crew. It's like tank nirvana when it hits this stage! I used to siphon the sand until I got a sand sifter star fish and there is currently one wrasse in the tank, plus lots of corals and a clean up crew. I took this photo a few months ago and I can already see there has been a lot of growth in my corals. I do have a small amount of hair algae in the back of the rocks and I'm hoping the starry blenny I have in the quarantine tank will help with that. I only add one fish at a time and only after they have been in a QT tank for 30 days (ich life cycle is 21 days) and in the main tank for 3 month or more. I lost a few fish due to my own errors like not enough pods in the tank to support a pipe fish etc...Most of my issues with fish loss I think is a source issue. I've only gotten one fish to live from my LFS, but no losses from one farther away.

I also have a 60 gal (with 20 gal sump) sea horse tank. What a pain that is! I love the horses but it is really a lot of work... Honestly I may as well have a milk cow to be married too as much work as these guys need. I am in the process of changing this tank from a bare bottom, which was supposed to be easier to clean to a sand bottom. Poor hermits can barely get around on the glass. I really think sand will help to keep up with water quality issues feeding these guys creates. I'll also be adding a ton of rock and I removed the refugium from the sump and have installed a skimmer. I do 20% water change every week... it's crazy and $$$. I also just got an ATO and AWC system to install on the tank.

 

[007Sean]

@SillyChicken , like all the coraline algae growing on the back glass of your tank.

I consider a tank fully cycled when its through with all of the cycles it goes through to become an established tank, not just the nitrogen cycle. Wrong or right, that's the way I look at it.
Consider putting an turf algae scrubber in your sump, that was one of the best, easiest way I found to have near zero nitrates and phosphates and controlled, actually wipes out the GHA.

 

[SillyChicken]

I'll look into it, thanks.

 

[Jmpridge]

What every one has suggested sounds great. You need to do ro/di sooner than l8r. You are just adding more nitrates with tap as well as previously stated po4. You'll never filter out while continuing to add to the sink. Kalkwaser drip will help if possible. Also research salt. Many commercial "reef salts" have trace amounts of nitrates and po4. This was my issue when I was fighting it. Oh and you probably can't over skim your system the biggest skimmer you can fit under there and high tank turnover is necessary to keep your system optimal. Blowing sand around dosent necessarily mean enough turn over. This hobby is so nuanced and expensive especially in larger systems. My last reef ran 220 gal total with a 150 display. I ran 2600gph @5ft head and a tunze wave box pair w additional powerheads and didn't have enough turnover. No I just try to raise chickens well im learning to lol. Good luck with it it sounds like there is a lot of good help on here for ya.