Sarah

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Just to throw a few facts into the mix, here's a few bits from FactCheck.org and other places. In case anyone here is not familiar with FactCheck, they critique ALL sides of political races.

1. Palin actually SUPPORTED the "Bridge to Nowhere" during her campaign for governor. She only said "thanks but no thanks" after she was elected, when congress had already essentially killed the deal. She took the money, though, and used it for other purposes.

2. Palin claimed in her speech that Obama didn't author “a single major law or even a reform” in the U.S. Senate or the Illinois Senate. In actuality, for just one example, Obama helped to pass major ethics reforms in both bodies.

3. In his speech, Lieberman said Obama hadn't "reached across party lines" to accomplish "anything significant," although Obama has teamed with GOP Sens. Tom Coburn and Richard Lugar to pass laws enhancing government transparency and curtailing the proliferation of nuclear and conventional weapons.

4. McCain has a TV ad which claims that Obama "gave big oil billions in subsidies and giveaways," citing his votes for a 2005 energy bill. But the bill actually RAISED taxes on the oil industry overall. In fact, the bill Obama voted for raised taxes on oil companies by $300 million over 11 years while providing $5.8 billion in subsidies for renewable energy, energy efficiency and alternative fuels. (Palin actually endorsed this bill, as governor.)

5. McCain also has an ad claiming that Obama is the "most liberal" Senator. But the National Journal rated him the 16th most liberal in his first year and the 10th most liberal in his second. It rated his votes "most liberal" only in 2007, when he was busy campaigning and missed one-third of the votes on which the rating is based.

6. In his speech, Thompson repeated misleading claims about Obama's tax program, saying it would bring "one of the largest tax increases in American history." But as increases go, Obama's package is hardly a history-maker. It would raise taxes for families with incomes above $250,000. Most people would see a cut.

7. McCain claimed that Obama’s health care plan would "force small businesses to cut jobs" and would put "a bureaucrat ... between you and your doctor." In fact, the plan exempts small businesses, and those who have insurance now could keep the coverage they have.

8. McCain has promised to increase use of "wind, tide [and] solar" energy, though his actual energy plan contains no new money for renewable energy. He has said elsewhere that renewable sources won’t produce as much as people think. (In fact, unlike Obama, McCain skipped the last EIGHT votes relating to renewable energy sources.)

9. In McCain's speech he called for "reducing government spending and getting rid of failed programs," but as in the past he failed to cite a single program that he would eliminate or reduce.

10. McCain also said Obama would "close" markets to trade. In fact, Obama, though he once said he wanted to "renegotiate" the North American Free Trade Agreement, now says he simply wants to try to strengthen environmental and labor provisions in it.

And from other sources:

11. As governor, Palin actually DECREASED funding for schools aimed at special needs kids by 62%.

12. As mayor, Palin tried to ban books from the public library.

13. Despite rumors to the contrary, the teleprompter did NOT actually malfunction during Palin's speech. In fact, it worked flawlessly according to GOP officials.

14. At one time Palin's husband was a registered member of the Alaskan Independence Party (the party that wants Alaska to secede from the union). Palin herself recorded a video for this year's convention, wishing them a "successfull and inspiring convention".

15. Palin opposed listing polar bears and beluga whales as endangered species, because she was afraid it would harm drilling efforts. She also opposed a proposition to limit mining where runoff would threaten salmon populations, and she supports aerial wolf hunting. As most people already know, she supports drilling in ANWAR and other areas throughout the state.

16. The governor's jet was not actually sold on ebay. It was put up for auction on ebay, but did not sell. It was later sold through a broker, at a loss. In fact, there is still an ongoing legal dispute with the buyer about the jet because of mechanical problems the jet was suffering from at the time of sale.

17. As most people already know, Palin wants to have creationism taught in school.

18. As most people already know, Palin opposes abortion even in cases of rape or incest.

19. As most people already know, Palin supports abstinence-only education.

Just a few things to think about!
 
And I feel the need to remind everyone that just because it is in print, and on the internet, doesn't mean it is necessarily true. I've heard equally long lists on the shortcomings of both nominees.
What really is funny, though, is that everyone keeps comparing Palin to Obama, yet she is only a running mate to the presidential nominee...
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Thank you, amazondoc, for actual FACTS. If anyone doubts the source, I encourage you to go check out FactCheck.org . It is NOT a partisan organization, as you can plainly see on their front page, where they point out fallacies from BOTH parties and all candidates. The often-repeated (but untrue) story about McCain getting "shot down five times" is debunked right at the top of the homepage.

Seriously--no matter WHO you're supporting, you NEED to know when you're being misled or downright lied to, and neither party is above such tactics. Please check for yourself. FactCheck.org is simply a convenient one-stop website for, well...checking facts! It's kind of like a Snopes.com for political campaign-watching.

Thanks again, amazondoc, for pointing out a great resource. It's a great place to arm yourself with REAL ammunition for a political debate, on BOTH sides of the aisle.

And if I can add one final bit to my earlier turkey metaphor? It is really pitiful and pathetic to see how the naturally graceful birds flounder and falter when they only have ONE intact wing to flap, rather than TWO working together. Just sayin'.
 
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I don't follow a lot of what you're saying here, like the above, "...it does go without saying that Republicans actually want their mothers, sisters, and daughters to do the same work for less pay than men." I don't know if YOU believe that, but *I* sure don't. My mother is a business owner, and votes Republican most of the time, and she darn sure doesn't believe she's worth less than a man who does similar work.

As far as your final paragraph, above, I was simply stating my OWN feelings and viewpoint, and not in the least little bit judging what other people decide or how they come to their decision. If you re-read my post, I think you'll see that it's just about ME, not anyone else. When I made reference to the issues that "fuel the right wing," I wasn't even talking about individual decision-making. I was referring to the political machine and the issues that it pushes in order to outrage voters and bring them to the polls. The Democrats do it too, you can be assured. It's hardly a one-party sin.
 
It was an obvious attempt at sarcasm. The issues that you listed are fairly universally cared about - but people do have differences about the proper role of government.
 
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That's exactly what I was saying--not that people "just don't care" (although I'm sure there are some folks out there who really don't care about a lot of these issues), but that each of us places our own "weight" or importance on each issue. That's what my scale metaphor was about. Speaking only for myself, I can't make any one single issue "outweigh" so many other things that I care deeply about and that that my personal faith leads me to take to heart as being of primary importance. I would not presume to decide what is or is not important to other people.

Sorry I misunderstood your "obvious" sarcasm. For my money, straight-up sarcasm tends to work better if you don't sandwich it in between two sincere statements--at least for slow people like me. That threw me off.
 
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There is something profoundly satisfying about that.
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Yes, and there's a certain peace in accepting that no matter what the outcome of the upcoming election, we ARE going to be stuck, as always, with turkeys in Washington.
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But under your scenario they'd all be circling around to the left- and that scares the begeebers out of me.
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But it doesn't scare ME. The far extreme right* is what "scares the bejeebers" out of me. And I was only speaking for myself.
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(And actually, I think that birds with only a left wing would circle to the right, if they could get up any momentum at all. I know a duck named "Left Turn" who only has a right leg, and he can only swim in circles to the left.)

*Just to clarify, I'm not talking about "mainstream" republicans here, or average, moderate "conservatives." My family is FULL of those, and they're the salt of the earth. I'm talking about the real wing-nuts. I've only seen one person posting on this forum who fits that description to me, and I strongly suspect that person of being a troll, because surely no one could really believe some of the things that he/she has written. I'd also not care to associate with far extreme leftists. I am personally to the left of center, ideologically, which is fine, because that's about just me, not anyone else. It's the way that my heart and my prayers and my intellect lead me, and being an American, that is my absolute right. I try to live by the Golden Rule, and I was mocked in another thread just the other day for voicing that--one sentiment was, "Are you kidding? Do you know what others would do unto you if they had a chance?" Well, that's not my responsibility, what OTHERS would do, is it? No. My responsibility is to do what *I* know is right, and if I get taken advantage of for it, well, then that's not on me, that's on someone else. I will "turn the other cheek" as often as I can, and do what I feel is right. If that "scares the bejeebers" out of anyone, well...I can't help that. I can promise you that you'll never be done wrong at my hands, if I can possibly help it.

My father, who was, literally, the best man I've ever known, once helped a man in need--a man who'd come to our church with a sad story, needing money and medical attention and a place to stay, etc. My dad (who was VERY much a republican) gave this man assistance on more than one occasion. He gave him money, he rented him a hotel room, he drove him to the doctor, he bought him shoes, he witnessed to him. Some people told him later that they suspected this guy of pulling a fast one. My dad just said, "Well, that's not my concern. My duty is to help when and where I can, not to judge who is worthy of help or not."

I still want to grow up to be like my father.
 
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What? That is an utterly ridiculous statement. Blaming lower pay for women on Republicans is just laughable. It's a cultural thing that we women have been fighting for years, and it's slowly changing - but both Republican and Democratic men have been standing in the way.
I would also like to mention that you didn’t mention the other biggie (probably THE biggest) for “single issue voters.” I’ll give a hint - it has to do with the Bill of Rights and is the main reason sited for a need for a “living constitution.” I would go further to say that it is probably the main reason that Democrats have lost the last 2 presidential elections (other than having nominees who might have been seen as slightly less charismatic than Bullwinkle).

The main reason they've lost is because their platform is so very far left of what mainstream America wants. They just can't get that through their thick heads, and until they do, I believe they will continue to lose. Middle America has a good head on their shoulders and knows a snowjob when they see it - thankfully.

Perhaps it would be helpful to view people who have decided on a different canidate than yourself as possibly having come to that decision for valid reasons instead of pigeonholing them as 'single issue voters.'

I am not a single issue voter. I'm a conservative, but I part company with the conservative party line on many things - because I am a thinking woman who has her own opinions (that no man from either party will ever be able to silence). What I am forced to do lately is vote for the person who is going to harm me the least. Right now the McCain ticket is the one that will harm me the least, and that's where my vote will go. Sarah has given me more of a reason to vote that way, I like her. Not all of her beliefs thrill me, but most of them do, and she agrees with me on some of my most important beliefs (I part company with her on religion, but I part company with most in the conservative movement on religion, I can deal with the differences).

And for the record, I am not happy at all with abortion, and don't want to pay for any of it with my taxes, but I don't think it can or should be banned. And we'll leave it at that.


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But it doesn't scare ME. The far extreme right is what "scares the bejeebers" out of me. And I was only speaking for myself.
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(And actually, I think that birds with only a left wing would circle to the right, if they could get up any momentum at all. I know a duck named "Left Turn" who only has a right leg, and he can only swim in circles to the left.)

I'd prefer to clip both wings, so they'd stay centered.​
 
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That's exactly why we couldn't do that--try and remember I'm actually talking about turkeys--I didn't make up the turkey story just so I'd have a cute analogy. When I asked on this forum about clipping wings, I was told that if I did BOTH wings, the determined birds would still manage to get up into trees and over fences simply by flapping harder. I was advised to clip one wing only, to deliberately put them off-balance.

Actual BIRDS.
 
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