Scratch and Peck Feeds

[Kat C]

Nah, haven’t tried it, just a hunch.
I’ll experiment with it and give my dogs only hamburgers and the kids I’m babysitting only ice cream at the same time.
They’re all gonna thrive for sure.

Feed your dog a diet of nothing but rats and you will have a much healthier dog. In fact hamburger would probably be OK and IMO better than dry dog food. But they need the organ meat, eyes, brain to give complete nutrition. They are carnivores and in the wild might eat some berries but essentially they are meat eaters, not grain eaters.

Humans have designed foods that are specifically meant to get us to eat them in excess. So they put sugar and fat's together or refined starch and salt and fat with tested flavoring and kids and adults eat those in preference to healthy food.

My husband and I used to dumpster dive for our chickens years ago. Some of the bread products were sweetened and our chickens didn't like them.

Our chickens like greens. In the spring I let a wild green called lambs quarters grow in the garden. I pull them up and put them in the chicken yard weighted under stone. They go crazy over them. But there is a point where if I put enough out they stop and leave some uneaten.

I read one site that said sprouts were treats and should only be fed 1 or 2 times a month. No....sprouts are enhanced grain and should be fed in preference to grain (or pulverized grain in pellets and crumbles) if you can manage that much sprouting.

Chicken treats are the good food chickens crave because in order to save money we feed them inferior food.

 

[Kat C]

@Kat C

I get what you are saying..... with an unlimited choice of foods and plenty of space to forage and get exercise and most likely having to work to get that food, the majority of chickens will be healthy. I think the video about not using grains is interesting and my feeling is that a largely grain based diet is not healthy for them which is why I outlined my concerned about whole grain feeds although I appreciate that pellets and crumbles are also grain based.
I think you have to look at more than one factor than just the feed like....
How the feed is provided... gravity feeder, fermented pan of feed, scattered over the ground etc and how often.
How much feed is given ie rationed or adlib.
How much area the hens have to range over.
The breed of bird
What other forage they may have available... ie compost pile etc.

I stand by my argument that modern day chickens are not like their jungle fowl ancestors and their high level of productivity means that dietary balance is probably much more critical. Many domesticated creatures will over eat and become fat or obese if they are allowed to eat as much as they like and don't get enough exercise.
Chickens that are penned or mostly penned and fed a whole grain diet ad lib are likely to become overweight and suffer health issues. Most people do not have the luxury of free range due to land restrictions or predators.
I think you have to weigh up all these circumstances and considerations if you move away from a formulated pellet or crumble and for the majority of people a pellet or crumble fed adlib is probably going to be the easiest and healthiest option for their chickens.

Modern chickens quickly go feral if they escape into a somewhat safe environment as they have done to a very large degree in Hawaii. There they live on basically a jungle fowl diet. In Hawaii the feral chickens are a mix of the semi domesticated birds the Polynesians and more recent domestic chickens. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/06/explore-biology-feral-chickens-island-kauai/
But in other places they seem to be entirely from domestic chickens http://www.floridarambler.com/funky-florida/key-west-chickens-key-west-roosters/
"As an omnivore, the red jungle fowl will eat many types of food it finds on the ground, from insects and worms to seeds, berries and even small animals or reptiles.
Feral chickens, domestic chickens that have returned to the wild, use similar omnivorous foraging tactics and will eat a similar diet if available. There are also reports of feral chickens living among human populations and foraging on discarded human food." http://animals.mom.me/wild-chickens-eat-1958.html
Some chickens probably couldn't go feral as they have been overbreed to have characteristics people like but are not sustainable (frizzle feathers for instance).
I know that many people cannot free range, but then I wonder why they have chickens instead of say guinea pigs. It seems cruel to me to shut chickens up in small pens and yards. I know I will get grief for saying that. But I watch our hens live in a more natural setting and I couldn't imagine keeping them in some of the small coops and runs people have. Nor do I like it when dogs only go out on a leash and cats never go out of the house. But I don't much care if you cage up a guinea pig or hamster.

 

[anna-newhampshire]

Great debate!
Did I just see humans eating ice cream being put into the same category as chickens eating their greens? I call straw man argument!

 

[Tesumph]

Great debate!
Did I just see humans eating ice cream being put into the same category as chickens eating their greens? I call straw man argument!

Not a straw man. They believe chickens know what is best for them to eat if given a huge variety of potentially unhealthy and healthy foods. I do not believe this.

Regardless, chickens are not their ancestors, period. They produce an unnatural amount of eggs and even if they didn’t, a backyard flock does not have the acres of territory to forage that jungle fowl do.

By the way, Inuit tribes did (do) not thrive on their carnivorous diet. They are quite unhealthy and known for their cardiovascular diseases. Surviving dues not equal thriving, and just because something is often repeated doesn’t make it true. If someone honestly believes their chickens could thrive on tuna, or hamburgers are better for their dog than a good dog food, then there’s nothing left that I could say to further this debate. Hard data is what stands at the end of the day.

 

[anna-newhampshire]

Lol it's past midnight here!
Yes it's a straw man because ice cream is a processed food made with sugar ( or high fructose corn syrup if it's cheap) and a human indulgence. The idea of serving bad-
for-them indulgences to chickens was never entertained.

Straw man - Wikipedia
A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.

Actually, it was mentioned that in the distant past, the chickens didn't care for baked goods with added sugar. And it was made clear that nowadays such food is not an option for them.

Truce for now, good night everyone.

 

[Mollyejo]

Like Chad I've been using Scratch & Peck starter and grower as it's local to me and thus easy to find, plus I like that it's organic and minimally processed. I do recommended fermenting it as chickens will pick through it for their favorite bits and otherwise not eat the fines, which is both wasteful and nutritionally off balance, as some of the vitamins and minerals are in the fines.

I don't have any experience with Hilands brand so hope someone else can weigh in on that.

Hello, I’m super new here and I guess I’m hijacking this slightly older convo to ask rosemary: can you share with me some instructions on how you ferment the scratch and peck? I have a flock (my very first) of six barred rock hens that has just begun laying in the last few weeks. I’ve transitioned my flock from S&P starter feed to the layer feed and I’m now finding that they are burning through it FAST!! I feed it through a gravity feeder and there’s always a thick supply of fine powdery substance at the bottom of the feeder. I will say their eggs are beautiful with thick shells and gorgeous yolks and all hens are happy friendly lovely birds. They also free range minimum five hours daily. I thank you kindly for any and all shared knowledge : )

 

[rosemarythyme]

Hello, I’m super new here and I guess I’m hijacking this slightly older convo to ask rosemary: can you share with me some instructions on how you ferment the scratch and peck? I have a flock (my very first) of six barred rock hens that has just begun laying in the last few weeks. I’ve transitioned my flock from S&P starter feed to the layer feed and I’m now finding that they are burning through it FAST!! I feed it through a gravity feeder and there’s always a thick supply of fine powdery substance at the bottom of the feeder. I will say their eggs are beautiful with thick shells and gorgeous yolks and all hens are happy friendly lovely birds. They also free range minimum five hours daily. I thank you kindly for any and all shared knowledge : )

Here's Scratch & Peck's instructions: https://www.scratchandpeck.com/feed-and-fines-maximizing-the-value-with-fermented-feed/

I do it slightly different for my flock of 7. I use a glass jar (half gallon I think?) and fill it about 1/2 way with feed. I add water until there's about 1" of water over the feed, then stir - the exact amount of water you will need will vary on temperature, humidity, etc., and it's something you may have to experiment with a bit. My birds prefer it dry as possible, like stiff oatmeal, however it's still wet enough that everything sticks together.

One jar makes about 3 days of fermented feed for me (I only feed fermented in mornings, pellets or crumbles are available all day). Once the jar runs low I just add more feed and water, stir again.

 

[Mollyejo]

Here's Scratch & Peck's instructions: https://www.scratchandpeck.com/feed-and-fines-maximizing-the-value-with-fermented-feed/

I do it slightly different for my flock of 7. I use a glass jar (half gallon I think?) and fill it about 1/2 way with feed. I add water until there's about 1" of water over the feed, then stir - the exact amount of water you will need will vary on temperature, humidity, etc., and it's something you may have to experiment with a bit. My birds prefer it dry as possible, like stiff oatmeal, however it's still wet enough that everything sticks together.

One jar makes about 3 days of fermented feed for me (I only feed fermented in mornings, pellets or crumbles are available all day). Once the jar runs low I just add more feed and water, stir again.

Thank you!! Excellent link too! May I ask what brand of pellets or crumble you would recommend?

 

[rosemarythyme]

Thank you!! Excellent link too! May I ask what brand of pellets or crumble you would recommend?

I'm currently using Payback organic hatch-to-hen crumble as my pullets aren't laying yet and the adults are molting and not laying, otherwise I use Payback organic layer pellets. It's a local-ish brand which is why I use it. I prefer pellets since it's less mess, but chickens seem to like crumble a bit more.

 

[Mollyejo]

I'm currently using Payback organic hatch-to-hen crumble as my pullets aren't laying yet and the adults are molting and not laying, otherwise I use Payback organic layer pellets. It's a local-ish brand which is why I use it. I prefer pellets since it's less mess, but chickens seem to like crumble a bit more.

Thank you so much for all the great information! And all my happy cluckers thank you too : )