Scratch Grain- Why it's useful in flock management and nutrition

[Chris09]

Quote:

I am curious about a more natural feed.

There is no real " natural feed " for chickens as most people know them. They are a type of fowl that were bred by man from junglefowl so a chickens most "natural feed " food wold be processed/ ground food and scraps with some whole grains now and then.

I understand what your trying to achieve but there are other ways of doing it.
If you can come up with a completed feed that meets the needs of your poultry with the proper amount of protein, fat, energy, amino acids, vitamins, minerals etc. then I would suggest either coarse grinding the feed your self or having a mill doing it for you.

I am not against feeding whole grains to chickens, I just don't think that a solely whole grain diet is the best diet for most of today's chickens.


Chris​

 

[welasharon]

Quote:

I am curious about a more natural feed.

There is no real " natural feed " for chickens as most people know them. They are a type of fowl that were bred by man from junglefowl so a chickens most "natural feed " food wold be processed/ ground food and scraps with some whole grains now and then.

I understand what your trying to achieve but there are other ways of doing it.
If you can come up with a completed feed that meets the needs of your poultry with the proper amount of protein, fat, energy, amino acids, vitamins, minerals etc. then I would suggest either coarse grinding the feed your self or having a mill doing it for you.

I am not against feeding whole grains to chickens, I just don't think that a solely whole grain diet is the best diet for most of today's chickens.


Chris​

I want my chickens to mostly forage for food but what I do have to supplement I want it to be of as high a quality as I can. The whole grains would be a component of the feed not the sole ingredient. Currently I am feeding a mixture of crumbles and grains of different sorts. The seramas are the only ones not currently spending the day foraging.

 

[jmagill]

I am trying to understand this thread.

Resolution, unless I am reading this wrong you are saying that we should be feeding our poultry whole grains because the level of satiation is as important as level of nutrition?

 

[triplepurpose]

Quote:

I am curious about a more natural feed.

There is no real " natural feed " for chickens as most people know them. They are a type of fowl that were bred by man from junglefowl so a chickens most "natural feed " food wold be processed/ ground food and scraps with some whole grains now and then.

I understand what your trying to achieve but there are other ways of doing it.
If you can come up with a completed feed that meets the needs of your poultry with the proper amount of protein, fat, energy, amino acids, vitamins, minerals etc. then I would suggest either coarse grinding the feed your self or having a mill doing it for you.

I am not against feeding whole grains to chickens, I just don't think that a solely whole grain diet is the best diet for most of today's chickens.


Chris​

I want my chickens to mostly forage for food but what I do have to supplement I want it to be of as high a quality as I can. The whole grains would be a component of the feed not the sole ingredient. Currently I am feeding a mixture of crumbles and grains of different sorts. The seramas are the only ones not currently spending the day foraging.

Not to get too off-topic here, because this only indirectly relates to scratch grains...

But ya know, since the subject of "natural diets, etc." was mentioned, I'd be really interested in the idea of maybe trying to find some balance between the hyper-domesticated breeds and the wild jungle fowl. See, I think there IS such thing as a "natural" chicken diet, and that would be what the red jungle fowl eat. These birds are actually not that different from chickens--well, they ARE chickens. They make all the same noises, have the same social behaviors, etc. And they eat a diet that is entirely "natural" in the sense that it consists of whatever they can find to eat and that they THRIVE on it--they are vigorous and seem pretty healthy.

Just so you get where I'm coming from, I'm in Hawaii, and there are feral chickens (mostly jungle fowl combined with wild fowl-type reverts from feral chickens, but they all share that wild jungle fowl body type, habits, etc.) These are small, lean chickens, kind of like small games, I guess, that require no care or feeding whatsover--in fact the population grows every year because they have no natural predators. They are often likened to rats with wings here. Anyway my point is that I do have years of directly observing wild/feral chickens (pesky little things) that qualify me to at least add that perspective to the discussion.

The unfortunate trade-off of this is that these chickens are pretty small and skinny, so they don't have much meat on them, but they are certainly edible, and they make a great soup stock, and they also lay eggs, if not as many as a production strain. In fact, while I don't generally eat them myself (although I have in the past). I do know people who eat them regularly, and I also know people who have captured hens, caged them, and gotten small, tasty eggs from them.

Anyway, my point is that a continuum does exist up to and including chickens that are completely able to find all of their own food if given enough space to forage. So there are possibilities for people who want a more self-reliant chicken, but it's not going to be like cornish X. There is a trade off. But hey, who cares if the amount of meat from a chicken is small, when you paid nothing to feed it? I think it would be a really interesting idea to discuss, or possibly even experiment with in breeding--trying to find the best balance between domestic-type and wild-type chickens that satisfactorily meets people's needs for specific applications.

Along those lines I'd also be interested in landrace chickens, and how they fit into this... And relevant to this particular thread, how people think the use of scratch grains might fit into this. I would think that landrace chickens or jungle fowl would do quite well on forage with a only little scratch to supplement if times where lean, since they are already finding all the other trace nutrients they need from forage and are perfectly adapted to it.

This particular thread might not the best place do that ultimately, since I don't want to hijack it, but right now I couldn't resist jumping in...

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
The junglefowl isn't a chicken it is a Pheasant (Family Phasianidae)

Quote:
Chickens is said to be bred from Red but I believe there is also some Grey and Green Junglefowl in there also. Chickens are also related to the Bekisar, Ceylon Junglefowl, and the Pheasant but the chicken diet different from all its other relatives do to more Hybridization.


Chris

 

[triplepurpose]

Quote:
The junglefowl isn't a chicken it is a Pheasant (Family Phasianidae)

Quote:
Chickens is said to be bred from Red but I believe there is also some Grey and Green Junglefowl in there also. Chickens are also related to the Bekisar, Ceylon Junglefowl, and the Pheasant but the chicken diet different from all its other relatives do to more Hybridization.


Chris

Not to be a nit-picking PITA, but before someone gets the wrong idea, I should point out that ALL of the wild fowl (Red, Grey, etc) are in the pheasant family (Order: Galliformes, Family: Phasianidae, Genus: Gallus, with various different species names). So saying that Red Jungle Fowl is not a chicken but a pheasant doesn't make sense--you could just as easily say that ALL chickens are pheasants, not chickens, since they all belong to the Phasianidae order... Pheasants have there own genus within the order, "Phasianus" that is distinct from the "Gallus" genus of all the jungle fowl and from the domestic chicken. (Which BTW IS in fact commonly classified as Gallus gallus domesticus, marking it officially as a subspecies of the Red Jungle Fowl, the likely hybridization with other fowl not-withstanding).

And taxonomy aside, the very fact that these different birds can all actually interbreed with each other and create non-sterile hybrids (which I believe even happens in the wild sometimes) should be seen evidence as to just how closely related they all are...

Sorry, not to be argumentative, But it's a little irritating to have my postings contradicted needlessly over a misapprehension of taxonomy...

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
Well you can look at it this way, we don't call Wolves a Dogs so why call a Red Junglefowl a chicken?

Chris

 

[centrarchid]

Quote:
The junglefowl isn't a chicken it is a Pheasant (Family Phasianidae)

Quote:
Chickens is said to be bred from Red but I believe there is also some Grey and Green Junglefowl in there also. Chickens are also related to the Bekisar, Ceylon Junglefowl, and the Pheasant but the chicken diet different from all its other relatives do to more Hybridization.


Chris

And selection, possibly 8,000 years worth, where relatively low quality food types became more important then easy to digest animals and vegetative plant materials that are cherry picked. When taken in light of all that selection, the taxonomy is not so all important.

 

[Nambroth]

Just want to back Sky the Chicken Man up here.

Domestic chickens are Gallus gallus domesticus, which is a subspecies of Gallus gallus, also commonly known as Red Jungle Fowl...

Genetically, there is markedly little difference. Research has shown that all domestic chickens share identical genetic makeup to a common ancestor to the Jungle Fowl. Some (rather dry) literature: http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0010639

There is little point to suggesting that Red Jungle Fowl are pheasants (at the implication that domestic chickens are not!).


Diet, on the other hand, is a little more tricky than simply what genetic makeup is, I will grant that!! On diet I will not comment extensively, because this is an area I am learning about myself. Though I will note that it would probably be impossible to directly mimic a jungle fowl's diet here in the USA, simply because we do not have the same flora or fauna that jungle fowl forage from daily, nor could we provide them with such diversity. I think the point is somewhat moot, unless we are able to provide rich foraging conditions year round.. even then I suspect we would not see the production that many would prefer from their birds. If production is not a concern, there are some old types that are still very good at foraging, and feeding them might be an entirely different story. Then again they may not be the 'pet' quality that many of us are seeking in a small backyard flock. There are a lot of different considerations, and none of it is altogether straightforward!

I digress, I am certainly no expert, and am here to read and learn, myself! Thank you all for the great thread so far.

 

[mossflower]

I fed my chickens cracked corn for ease of digestion and whole grain oats. This was to supplement what they got from the woods and pasture and help to keep them warm in the wet and often very chilly weather in northern Indiana. They were healthy, happy and layed lots of wonderful tasty eggs for me.