Scratch Grain- Why it's useful in flock management and nutrition

[Resolution]

-Chickens are not actually members of the pheasant family ( for more on that topic ). They are about as related to the pheasant family as the weasel family is related to the cat family. The Junglefowl is closely related Francolins and Bamboo Partridge, and more distantly related to Chukar Partridge and Coturnix. This monophyletic family, the Gallusinidae, have no additional close allies.

They are descendants of Junglefowl. While the only the female Red Junglefowl contributed to the maternal genetics of domestic chickens, each of the remaining three species of Junglefowl likely contributed in ancient times at the inception of the domestic lineage thousands of years ago.

Green Junglefowl males contributed to:

Koeyoshi, Onagadori, Sumatran, Quail Bantam, tinted egg layers ( Araucana and etc.)


Sri Lanka Junglefowl males contributed to:

Fayoumi, Yokohama, Sumatran, Quail Bantam, Sebright, Persian Rumpless Bantam, Quetero, Marans, Barnsvelder, Wellsumer, Penedesencas, Buttercup

Grey Junglefowl males contributed to:
Leghorn, Buttercup, Wellsumer, Asil and just about every single breed with yellow skin.

There may be another junglefowl- the Malagasy/Ganoi -which may be the progenitor of Malayoid Gamefowl and Quail Bantam.


What do junglefowl eat naturally?

All eat fruit and seasonally bamboo seeds, wild grass seeds. They will forage year round for rootlets and invertebrates. Sri Lanka and Green Junglefowl have substantially higher requirements for antioxidants an animal protein than either the Grey or Red Junglefowl. To keep them alive over the long term, whole grain should be limited to millet, milo, oats and rice, canary seed, finch seed- with frequent supplementation of antioxidant rich fruit- for instance, replacing their water with diluted cherry or pomegranate concentrate mixed into warm water, twice a month or more. The latter to species should also have oystershell ( no other form of calcium supplement) added to their feed year round. Indeed, any captive fowl should have oystershell provided- roosters and chicks alike. Other sources of calcium carbonate and the such- can be risky for developing birds.

As for natural feed, I have to disagree. There is no discernible difference between the digestive systems of domestic and wild junglefowl though to be sure, the Sri Lanka and Green Junglefowl digestive system is taxed on a vegetarian diet and this will eventually result in hormonal imbalances and chronic infections due to ulcerations in the pancreas endocrine glands.

 

[centrarchid]

Quote:
No requirement / need for gross physical differences between gut and intestinal tracts of domestic and nominal wild jungle fowl taxa. Significant differences can still exist in respect to abilitiy of handling a range of feed types. The domestication process is likely at least as important as the multispecies background in influencing ability to handle a particular type of feedstuff (i.e. scratch grains with lots of corn).

 

[Miss Lydia]

This might be a simple question, because I really have to think simply, I have a hard time grasping alot of what ya'll are talking about, but my chickens which are game mixes will eat the 7 way scratch grain which contains milo,corn, sunflower seeds etc. I don't have the info right in front of me.

but anyway they will eat this much better than the Purina FR that I put out for them. Can anyone explain to me why that is? Thanks.

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
Nearly all chickens we have to day differ greatly from there junglefowl ancestor not just in looks but also in the ability to possess food. The chickens and the junglefowl may have no discernible difference between the digestive systems but that does not mean they have the ability to possess the same foods or feedstuff.

Edited to add -
Chickens feed a all grain/high grain diet have a higher risk of vitamin B2 (Riboflavin) deficiency since most grains are deficient in vitamin B2.
Function of Vitamin B2 vital for growth, the production of red blood cells and releasing energy from food.
The affects on poultry of a low B2 diet can be curled toes, poor growth, weak and emaciation are seen in young birds. Leg muscles are atrophied and flabby. The skin is dry and harsh. Poor hatchability and egg production can occur in adults. Dead embryos have "clubbed" down feathers, it can simulates Marek’s Disease (MD), since both have enlarged peripheral nerves, adults have enlarged fatty (yellow) livers.


Chris

 

[centrarchid]

Quote:
Nearly all chickens we have to day differ greatly from there junglefowl ancestor not just in looks but also in the ability to possess food. The chickens and the junglefowl may have no discernible difference between the digestive systems but that does not mean they have the ability to possess the same foods or feedstuff.

Chris .

Check my post after one copied above. I corrected to say no gross differences, as in morphology. I very much agree they are still different in their abilties to process foods like scratch grains. Differences effecting such capacity mey not be limited to the digestive tract itself.

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
Nearly all chickens we have to day differ greatly from there junglefowl ancestor not just in looks but also in the ability to possess food. The chickens and the junglefowl may have no discernible difference between the digestive systems but that does not mean they have the ability to possess the same foods or feedstuff.

Chris .

Check my post after one copied above. I corrected to say no gross differences, as in morphology. I very much agree they are still different in their abilties to process foods like scratch grains. Differences effecting such capacity mey not be limited to the digestive tract itself.

I meant to quote Resolution. Corrected now. Sorry about that.

Chris

 

[chickened]

I thought pelleted/mash feed was used when grit was not given as in caged birds which is why formulated feeds were developed... not for free ranged birds.

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
No,
Mash type has been around for quit sometime and before we penned chickens. A good percentage of today's chickens parent stock were feed a mash type feed when they were being bred/created.
A truly free ranging chick needs a good bit of good land to survive healthily with out mans help plus a good number of today's wouldn't last a good winter truly free ranging with out mans help by adding shelter, feed and water.

Chris

 

[centrarchid]

Quote:
No,
Mash type has been around for quit sometime and before we penned chickens. A good percentage of today's chickens parent stock were feed a mash type feed when they were being bred/created.
A truly free ranging chick needs a good bit of good land to survive healthily with out mans help plus a good number of today's wouldn't last a good winter truly free ranging with out mans help by adding shelter, feed and water.

Chris

I agree with Chris very much on this statement. I have probably amoung the toughest birds (American games consistently bred on walks) in the midwest when it comes to truelly free-range living in that they can survive in fence rows for years with little more winter cover than provided by trees. Some years they can breed successfully, other years they can not with a given walk / harem at serious risk of becoming extinct if I do not intervene. Two mechanisms appear to operate to prevent long-term survival. First is these birds have too short of a breeding season as provided by a temperate midwest climate. The short breeding season makes it nearly impossible for the harems to compensate for losses due to predation. Secondly, and more appropriate to this thread, is winter time nutrition which interacts with reproduction and resistance to predators. In a very mild winter the birds can obtain all they need nutritionally by foraging for naturally occuring items. Items were dominated by insects, plant parts, and seeds. There food requirements vary with temperature and wind conditions which they can compensate for by expanding and contracting their foraging range. My birds could expand to a maximum of about a 1/4 mile radius when suitable cover was present. Further expansion would often result in harem breaking up. Conditions were far more extreme than experienced by typical free-ranging barnyard fowl. During cold winters I would take shelled dent corn out to a location I knew they foraged and spread it out on ground. This would decrease range radius. The corn (rough equivalent of scratch) provided bulk of energy needs but was far from a complete diet. None-the-less it allowed the birds to persist. Not all chickens, would be able to use the whole corn as my games do, at least in part owing to selection for performance on more easily processed and complete diets like or existing crumbles, pellets, and mashes developed for production flocks. The birds could persist but breeding was not enhanced by the use of corn. Corn did not promote egg production and was not a suitable forage for chicks.

 

[welasharon]

Quote:
No,
Mash type has been around for quit sometime and before we penned chickens. A good percentage of today's chickens parent stock were feed a mash type feed when they were being bred/created.
A truly free ranging chick needs a good bit of good land to survive healthily with out mans help plus a good number of today's wouldn't last a good winter truly free ranging with out mans help by adding shelter, feed and water.

Chris

I agree with Chris very much on this statement. I have probably amoung the toughest birds (American games consistently bred on walks) in the midwest when it comes to truelly free-range living in that they can survive in fence rows for years with little more winter cover than provided by trees. Some years they can breed successfully, other years they can not with a given walk / harem at serious risk of becoming extinct if I do not intervene. Two mechanisms appear to operate to prevent long-term survival. First is these birds have too short of a breeding season as provided by a temperate midwest climate. The short breeding season makes it nearly impossible for the harems to compensate for losses due to predation. Secondly, and more appropriate to this thread, is winter time nutrition which interacts with reproduction and resistance to predators. In a very mild winter the birds can obtain all they need nutritionally by foraging for naturally occuring items. Items were dominated by insects, plant parts, and seeds. There food requirements vary with temperature and wind conditions which they can compensate for by expanding and contracting their foraging range. My birds could expand to a maximum of about a 1/4 mile radius when suitable cover was present. Further expansion would often result in harem breaking up. Conditions were far more extreme than experienced by typical free-ranging barnyard fowl. During cold winters I would take shelled dent corn out to a location I knew they foraged and spread it out on ground. This would decrease range radius. The corn (rough equivalent of scratch) provided bulk of energy needs but was far from a complete diet. None-the-less it allowed the birds to persist. Not all chickens, would be able to use the whole corn as my games do, at least in part owing to selection for performance on more easily processed and complete diets like or existing crumbles, pellets, and mashes developed for production flocks. The birds could persist but breeding was not enhanced by the use of corn. Corn did not promote egg production and was not a suitable forage for chicks.

And here is where my situation differs. I am in Florida and we grow bugs, grass and seeds year round so mine are able to forage quite well. There have been (now down to one) for the last 15 years or so, feral chickens on the periphery of my land. They had survived well until stray dogs killed all but the one rooster (who has taken up with mine). This is what led me to wanting to provide mine with less comercially prepared (and I think inferior) feed. This rooster is gorgeous and healthy and he forages for his feed so I know the land supports them. What I wasn't wanting to do was interfere with his nutritional balance and try to bring mine in line with his feed....as much as I can. I don't want to feed all grains...I want to include grains in a balanced feed that doesn't depend heavily on comercial stuff.