sebright color crosses

[Dylon]

Thanks for the answer! I have a only two buff Sebrights so I want to incubate so eggs soon because I live in predator capital of the world and their chances are slim with it just being the two of them!!! I just didn't want to get like all buff offspring that would grow weird patches of gold laced. I don't like stuff like that!! I might cross them on purpose just to freshen up the gene pool a little because I have heard that Sebrights are very inbred!!!

 

[ESofVA]

I figured they would be a mix of Silver and Gold Plaid

LOL!!!!!

 

[Skipspin]

Thank you for this thread.

My 6 year old has an (assumed) unrelated GLS pair, and we are getting him a few more for Christmas. He shows them, and makes quite a killing off eggs and chicks. Thought about getting my 4 year some silvers, but didn't want to have to keep them separate. I guess this answers my question. We don't!

If anyone knows somewhere besides a hatchery to get some better quality GLS or SLS I'd love to support a smaller operation. I am, however, hesitant to go with fertile eggs since we are still working on the incubator. Our most successful hatches have been under our wonderful broody mutt hens. 80%+ hatch, and very few have died in the first 1-3 weeks. Actually, only one. We sold 8 chicks at 7 days old so don't know about those- but they were very robust. Maybe it's just because we got broken in by losing tons of silky chicks last year... We have 3 GLS we are raising from 2 different hatches right now.

We'd like some slightly smaller genetics and ours have been faulted for the comb not being "mulberry" enough and too red. Our rooster has so far won every crowing contest at every fair he's been at. LOL. He's quite the man.

 

[Dylon]

Thank you for this thread.

My 6 year old has an (assumed) unrelated GLS pair, and we are getting him a few more for Christmas. He shows them, and makes quite a killing off eggs and chicks. Thought about getting my 4 year some silvers, but didn't want to have to keep them separate. I guess this answers my question. We don't!

If anyone knows somewhere besides a hatchery to get some better quality GLS or SLS I'd love to support a smaller operation. I am, however, hesitant to go with fertile eggs since we are still working on the incubator. Our most successful hatches have been under our wonderful broody mutt hens. 80%+ hatch, and very few have died in the first 1-3 weeks. Actually, only one. We sold 8 chicks at 7 days old so don't know about those- but they were very robust. Maybe it's just because we got broken in by losing tons of silky chicks last year... We have 3 GLS we are raising from 2 different hatches right now.

Is it me or do all Sebright roos have a "little man complex"? Lol

We'd like some slightly smaller genetics and ours have been faulted for the comb not being "mulberry" enough and too red. Our rooster has so far won every crowing contest at every fair he's been at. LOL. He's quite the man.

 

[Silseb]

Thank you for this thread.

My 6 year old has an (assumed) unrelated GLS pair, and we are getting him a few more for Christmas. He shows them, and makes quite a killing off eggs and chicks. Thought about getting my 4 year some silvers, but didn't want to have to keep them separate. I guess this answers my question. We don't!

If anyone knows somewhere besides a hatchery to get some better quality GLS or SLS I'd love to support a smaller operation. I am, however, hesitant to go with fertile eggs since we are still working on the incubator. Our most successful hatches have been under our wonderful broody mutt hens. 80%+ hatch, and very few have died in the first 1-3 weeks. Actually, only one. We sold 8 chicks at 7 days old so don't know about those- but they were very robust. Maybe it's just because we got broken in by losing tons of silky chicks last year... We have 3 GLS we are raising from 2 different hatches right now.

We'd like some slightly smaller genetics and ours have been faulted for the comb not being "mulberry" enough and too red. Our rooster has so far won every crowing contest at every fair he's been at. LOL. He's quite the man.

you live in sebright country! lots of good sebrights come from florida. Carey's have some very nice ones. Join the ABA (American Bantam Club) and they will send you a really nice fat yearbook with listings of breeders in your area. You will be very pleased! Here is their website www.bantamclub.com

 

[ESofVA]

 
Thank you for this thread.

My 6 year old has an (assumed) unrelated GLS pair, and we are getting him a few more for Christmas. He shows them, and makes quite a killing off eggs and chicks. Thought about getting my 4 year some silvers, but didn't want to have to keep them separate. I guess this answers my question. We don't!

If anyone knows somewhere besides a hatchery to get some better quality GLS or SLS I'd love to support a smaller operation. I am, however, hesitant to go with fertile eggs since we are still working on the incubator. Our most successful hatches have beeTyfor that wS under our wonderful broody mutt hens. 80%+ hatch, and very few have died in the first 1-3 weeks. Actually, only one. We sold 8 chicks at 7 days old so don't know about those- but they were very robust. Maybe it's just because we got broken in by losing tons of silky chicks last year... We have 3 GLS we are raising from 2 different hatches right now.

We'd like some slightly smaller genetics and ours have been faulted for the comb not being "mulberry" enough and too red. Our rooster has so far won every crowing contest at every fair he's been at. LOL. He's quite the man.

you live in sebright country! lots of good sebrights come from florida. Carey's have some very nice ones. Join the ABA (American Bantam Club)  and  they will send you a really nice fat yearbook with listings of breeders in your area. You will be very pleased! Here is their website www.bantamclub.com

TY for the url. I JUST JOINED AFTER READING THIS!!!

 

[mfarrow]

Hi what would i get if i put a gold cockerel to a citroen hen please would i get sex linked? thank mark

 

[The Kooky Kiwi]

Hi Everyone - I appreciate this thread is now quite old but since it ties in with a project I currently have underway I thought a few photos and observations from my project might be "useful"? There is a LOT of hypothesis out there as to which genes contribute to the "Citron" Sebrights so I wanted to share some "actual" results.

I started with a Citron sebright hen and bred her to a Silver pekin roo. That's my Citron on the left.


The product of that pairing resulted in 3 babies - two roosters and one hen. The chicks looked very sebrighty - birchen colour type and the typical cream face/breast. Upon maturity the roosters were as expected - silver with the "odd" gold feather leakage. This is consistent with the expectation that any roosters would carry one silver and one gold gene. The "odd" gold feathers were quite distinctive in that the gold coloured exactly one half of the feather and was lighter than the typical sebright gold. I wondered if this "could" be the influence of the Citrone genetics at work but obviously wanted to test further. The third picture here are not those actual chicks but more recent chicks that look very much the same - as an example.



Sadly I lost the original Citrone hen to illness so I bred two of her three chicks together. I had a bit of a disaster season due to predators, achieving only one chick and losing the three project birds The resulting roo chick, pictured here, is S+/S- - he exhibits the gold leakage though it is very difficult to tell if it is diluted. He's a proper lolly scramble on the scale of patterning (shows a bit of everything) but otherwise is quite a nicely proportioned bird and has been an excellent rooster.



So this season I'm breeding Rusty to the unrelated silver sebright hen (in the original photo with the Citrone) and so far have the following chicks:

From the first clutch: One roo that looks to be all silver (pictured). Two pullets that are silver (they look just like this roo). And one pullet that is gold - it's a little hard to tell at this early stage but I have moments when I think her gold might be diluted/Citrone so I am watching her development VERY carefully.

From the second clutch: There are three young silvers - as yet too young to sex or see leakage (if any).

From the third clutch: Eggs are in the incubator and due to hatch soon!



I'm working on the basis that Citrone is a separate gene in play that acts to dilute Gold. I don't know exactly "what" to call this gene is at this stage - there's a lot of information out there - most of which is contradictory - but it seems likely it is an Ig or Di type gene. Based on my reading, there is strong support that this gene is predominantly present in the Silver birds, apparently to dilute or reduce any unwanted "dirtying" of the silver - to produce a cleaner silver.

It is my understanding (based on what the breeder my original Citrone came from said) that you can cross a Silver bird with a Gold bird to achieve a rooster progeny that is S+/S- (also with Ig?/- ??). This rooster progeny can then produce Citrone hen babies (as is apparently how my Citrone hen came to be). What I "don't" know is whether that second pairing was to a silver hen (which then follows that the Citrone hen received an Ig gene from both mom and dad?) or to a gold hen (which then follows that the Citrone hen received only one gene from dad).

 

[MokiYoki]

I'm working on the basis that Citrone is a separate gene in play that acts to dilute Gold. I don't know exactly "what" to call this gene is at this stage - there's a lot of information out there - most of which is contradictory - but it seems likely it is an Ig or Di type gene. Based on my reading, there is strong support that this gene is predominantly present in the Silver birds, apparently to dilute or reduce any unwanted "dirtying" of the silver - to produce a cleaner silver.

It is my understanding (based on what the breeder my original Citrone came from said) that you can cross a Silver bird with a Gold bird to achieve a rooster progeny that is S+/S- (also with Ig?/- ??). This rooster progeny can then produce Citrone hen babies (as is apparently how my Citrone hen came to be). What I "don't" know is whether that second pairing was to a silver hen (which then follows that the Citrone hen received an Ig gene from both mom and dad?) or to a gold hen (which then follows that the Citrone hen received only one gene from dad).

I'm wondering if its possible to make a citron on s+/s+ Ar/Ar (AR being autosomal red inhibitor which is present homogeneously in all clean silver patterned birds).

But I wouldn't know since I don't bother with patterns much.

 

[The Kooky Kiwi]

I'm wondering if its possible to make a citron on s+/s+ Ar/Ar (AR being autosomal red inhibitor which is present homogeneously in all clean silver patterned birds).

According to my readings there should be several "theoretical" ways to go about it. In very simple terms a Citrone (or similarly coloured bird) is effectively a dilution of the gold/red base. I've considered that any of the following genes could be used to achieve a dilution effect and from there it's just a matter of preference based on how much dilution and the "tone" of the dilution that you require. You could have three birds, each diluted by a different gene method, and they would plausibly have subtle differences in colour. Lemon vs Buff vs Cream vs Citrone? And then of course it's whether or not any of these genes are present in your project population to work with!

Di - Dilute (Dominant - Dilutes Red & Gold)
Cb Champagne Blond (Dominant - Dilutes Gold)
Ig - Inhibiter of Gold (Recessive - Dilutes Gold to Lemon)

I also have another theory, which I have contemplated with reference to my previous experience breeding mutation cockatiels. In cockatiels you have sex linked colours, for example Lutino and Cinnamon. With careful breeding and patience (lots of patience) you do sometimes achieve a "crossover" and combination of those sex linked genes. A common practice is to start one parent of each to get a male who is "split" to the desired colours - I.e Lut / Cin. For the most part his hen babies will be either Lutino or Cinnamon (following sex linked rules) but there are also occasions where the colours cross over and you get a combination hen - Lutino & Cinnamon in one bird.

Following this logic - is it then possible for a crossover of this type to occur in a sebright? If you start with the rooster who is split silver/gold (S+ / S-) - could you get a crossover and achieve a hen that is S+/S-? We already see the colour effect of this combination in roosters (the lemony hackles) so if it were possible to combine the S+ and S- in a hen you would plausibly expect to see a similar colour effect - ergo Citrone?

If such a crossover were achievable - this would account for the rarity of the colour here in NZ because the chances of such a crossover could indeed be very small to achieve. It could also explain how it was possible to achieve a Citrone bird in the manner described by the breeder who produced my original citrone.

I just have a nagging thought in my head, that if Citrone was achieved by way of one of the dilution genes discussed above, then we should be seeing more diluted birds in our population here.