Self-Blue Cochin Bantams

[cochinman2005]

Quote:
Confusing to some, apparently yes. I agree on that point.

 

[friedeggs]

but a lot of people have taken to using lavender incorrectly for the self blue variety, in several breeds

I did not know this. Thought it was mainly a silkie thing. It can be confusing to some just to learn to discern self blue from well with silkies we say andalusian blue and then throw in the lavender gene. To some its hair pulling

This thread is rather enjoyable.
Great birds BTW Tom. How much feather quality loss/degrading have you come across with them if I may ask when both birds are expressing the gene?​

 

[cochinman2005]

Quote:
I did not know this. Thought it was mainly a silkie thing. It can be confusing to some just to learn to discern self blue from well with silkies we say andalusian blue and then throw in the lavender gene. To some its hair pulling

This thread is rather enjoyable.
Great birds BTW Tom. How much feather quality loss/degrading have you come across with them if I may ask when both birds are expressing the gene?

Great question! In general the feather quality is poor on the f4 Self-Blues. I have a couple that are considerably better than the others and will use those extensively this spring for breeding. The f3 splits (all Black), have great feather quality and I've been showing one of the hens as a Black. She has great type, but rather snipey head, or at least not as beefy as I'd like. The males tend to be stringy in the tail coverts and even the main tail. I plan to breed at least one of the better feather quality f4 cockerels back to f3 splits to see if there is any improvement in feather quality. Females are better in feather quality than the males, but still not great.

 

[friedeggs]

Do you feel any of this is contributed to what the gene does the more it is expressed? I have seen on my own when breeding in more self blue that there is much degrading of the feather. and that pouring black pigment back to the pool makes in clears up the problem as well as adding richness to the over all color. And frets and peppering increase. Though for exhibition Im not sure if that is frowned upon or not.
Oe's seem to not show problems with feather quality loss and I dont know if cochins w/ their soft feathering or even silkies w/ them being barbless has something to do with it or not. Just thinking

 

[cochinman2005]

I know of others that have been working the Self-Blue color on other breeds and have seen similary feather quality issues, to the point of brittleness in the shoulder/wing bow/bar area. I have seen Moderns and OEG's with great feather quality, so I think the issue can be overcome in time. Certainly the soft feather of Cochins or Silkies may lend to the problem.

 

[friedeggs]

feather quality issues, to the point of brittleness in the shoulder/wing bow/bar area.

yes. thats it.
From what I know the lavender gene, it is closely stationed to a growth inhibiting gene and with too much of the gene poured into the bird can actually take the above issues of brittleness to a place where they can not recover from.The pins shoot, feather growth begins but feathering doesnt continue. Bird permanently looks like a molting bird in those area.
I had bred out to anothers SB male to one of my own projects, a SB highly melanized buff columbian and for the first time had the above reaction. I couldn't account for the male only ther female. And on that BC of the reaction from just one test hatch I culled the male and the chicks. The hen, had crossed to my other males never produced chicks like that again. Im sure I could have worked on solid matings with him for splits but decided just to keep working from my own.
Only other time I've seen oddities of feathering is with pearls. The rather silvery silver gened whites. And their feathering seems to go satin soft, with mostly males.​

 

[Msbear]

That is so interesting. I never thought there could be side effects like that... weird. Glad word of mouth and others experience can make sense of it all.

 

[friedeggs]

arent recessive genes fun, lol

 

[dak]

Any updates for 2012?

 

[cochinman2005]

Breeding f4's together this year. Just started hatching last week, so only 6 hatched out so far. More to come. Chicks show good vigor, and 100% yellow legs so far. The best cockerel I raised last year has blue legs/white feet. I am going to breed him to yellow legged females. His type is much better than the yellow legged males I rasied last year. So far all the chicks are from yellow legged male x yellow legged females.