Self Blue (Lavender) Silkie Thread

[destiny_56085]

C'mon up north.... lots of awesome black silkies up here. Connie has some absolutely amazing ones. I've seen her on champ row multiple times with them.

I agree with Deb on the buffs too. I'm just too bull-headed to totally give them up. Its a all a balancing act and you end up culling alot of pq birds due to too light of skin or too much smut in the feathering.

 

[friedeggs]

There were silkie breeders from all over the country that were showing at Ohio, as well as at Shawnee.

Are there consistant birds in each district? At the ON's they were from all over.

Blacks equal whites as far as quality is concerned.
Where are you from, around here it's not uncommon for the blacks to rival the whites.

Im in Maryland.
I know its not uncommon for them to rival whites. How many shows though, honestly do they do that?
And to add, how many partridge, gray, buff rival whites? I think my point is being missed here.
Its seems old time true breeders are dying off, and people now want quick to win birds or the new hot color instead of working on certain varieties "that are already in the standard'' and getting consistant birds from breeder to breeder. One has to remember why there are shows in the first place. breeders setting birds to type and variety that has been set by the associations. I do work with AOV's and love them, but you'll not find them in a show hall until they are ready.

Buff is always going to be a challenge, because in order to get the color, you have to deal with some blk in the tail. I worked on buff for several years, until I decided that the number of culls for color was way too high - in other words, I believe buff is for masochists!
Then why is it in the standard, if breeders cannot get the variety right? Might want to lump gray in there too. No one can find the original breeders and they had to have passed/ w/o problems on their variety?
It's not that breeders can't get it right, it's just a more difficult variety to perfect, with more culls than what's seen in many other varieties.

I agree with that.​

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

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And thats fanastic. It is! But when you go to shows w/i a district and you have judges remarking poorly on them what does that say?
Depends on the judge and the birds that are shown. Some judges plain do NOT like silkies, and will never rate them favourably, and pretty much do not know the standard well. And some exhibitors have crappy looking birds. Some shows draw lots of hatchery birds, and while a OEGB or modern game hatchery bird doesn't compare to a true show standard one, I think with silkies that the difference is significantly more noticeable. Even without knowing the standard one can see significant differences.

Were the birds @ Shawnee from all over or center around one area like the ON's?
Well, I'm from Arizona and I had 9 birds, including a non-bearded buff entered. Connie is from Minnesota and she had lots of blacks (plenty of other varieties as well). Shari is from Louisiana and had lots of birds in an assortment of varieties. Had silkies from Texas, Oklahoma, Colorado, Florida. Maybe more states? 190+ silkies. Not specifically slkies, but at the banquet it was mentioned that there were exhibitors from 30 states. They accepted 4500 entries and returned I do not know how many for lack of judges/space/cages. This was the largest APA National in 20 years, and the largest EVER west of the Mississippi River.

Blacks equal whites as far as quality is concerned.

I'm not seeing this when you look through rows of birds in a show hall.
As with any breed/variety, a lot depends on the shows you frequent: size and specific exhibitors. I read threads about how rare white-faced black spanish are, but at all the shows in my area there are always LOTS of them...because there are several breeders in this part of the country. Most of the shows I have attended over the last 9 years have had excellent blacks.

Buff is always going to be a challenge, because in order to get the color, you have to deal with some blk in the tail. I worked on buff for several years, until I decided that the number of culls for color was way too high - in other words, I believe buff is for masochists!

Then why is it in the standard, if breeders cannot get the variety right?
I have certainly seen excellent buffs. While I will agree that males are more difficult to get good quality birds, I've had a number of clear or nearly clear females with dark combs. George had excellent buffs as does Hattrick. The ones Deb raised were great, too. Notice that Deb did not say it was impossible to get the colour right, just that it took a lot of work.

Might want to lump gray in there too. No one can find the original breeders and they had to have passed/ w/o problems on their variety?
As I was walking through the sale cages I did a double take and found a grey cock with excellent colouring. Absolutely NO red. (And bought him on the spot to put with my grey hen)

I think one of the reasons greys seem to be on the decline is that too many people are breeding the ones with red and calling them calico,

and thus messing up the grey genotype. Autosomal red is VERY difficult to breed out.

But there are many breeders out there working on buffs, and there were also some excellent buff pullets at Shawnee.

Thats fantastic news

As for grey, until a group of grey silkie breeders get together and work on the grey standard and determine what is genetically POSSIBLE,

How'd the variety pass if things are not genetically possible?

Sigrid has talked to several grey breeders and she insists that you can't produce grey silkies that meet every aspect of the color standard.

LOL, boy I'd like to know who they are. Because I know of only one who has put many many years in on them and has gotten results.
I honestly have not dealved into the standard to see why Sigi is saying that the males are a different genotype than the females, but now that I have a pair, I will do so. I do know that it has been years since I've seen a grey male. It is not uncommon for a variety to have a female breeding line and a male breeding line; partridge is an excellent example of this.

I don't know who wrote it, or when it was written. I doubt that there was a qualifying meet for greys, it was probably one of the "back door" additions to the breed standard that took place when things were rather loosey goosey with the parent organizations.

and thats a shame

These are my opinios and Im just speaking objectively and mean no disrespect....​

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
And thats fanastic. It is! But when you go to shows w/i a district and you have judges remarking poorly on them what does that say?
Were the birds @ Shawnee from all over or center around one area like the ON's?

There were silkie breeders from all over the country that were showing at Ohio, as well as at Shawnee.

Blacks equal whites as far as quality is concerned.

I'm not seeing this when you look through rows of birds in a show hall.​

Where are you from, around here it's not uncommon for the blacks to rival the whites.

Buff is always going to be a challenge, because in order to get the color, you have to deal with some blk in the tail. I worked on buff for several years, until I decided that the number of culls for color was way too high - in other words, I believe buff is for masochists!

Then why is it in the standard, if breeders cannot get the variety right? Might want to lump gray in there too. No one can find the original breeders and they had to have passed/ w/o problems on their variety?​

It's not that breeders can't get it right, it's just a more difficult variety to perfect, with more culls than what's seen in many other varieties.​

Well said, Julie

 

[LilPeeps]

I have seen partridge, greys, and buffs that rival whites type-wise, and many of those buffs had extraordinary coloring. The thing with colored (especially patterned) silkies, is that they're harder to judge because the detail in the individual feathers is not easily seen. A lot of judges find it easier to put up a solid bird rather than trying to decipher the pattern on say a grey or partridge. A lot of people just want to win, so they go with a variety that has a better chance of overtaking the competition, and therefore you won't have many breeders in the patterned, or colored birds such as buff that are more work than most are willing to put up with. I bred greys for a while, and I was the only one showing them. When I would bring them to shows, they would always be judged differently, as the judges all had different opinions on what a grey should look like. I got out of them after a few years in favor of expanding my black breeding program and to start working with the self blues. The woman I sold my greys to is still working with them and has hatched some nice birds, but unfortunately she's not putting much effort into showing them. I am getting into a couple AOV projects, but that doesn't mean that I won't still be working on my standard varieties as well.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
Are there consistant birds in each district? At the ON's they were from all over.

Regardless of the breed or variety, having quality birds requires a breeder choosing that breed/variety and acquiring birds. With the demise of eggbid, there are multiple auction sites, which splits the birds available onto many of them. If you are looking to purchase by auction, you have to look at quite a few sites to even find out if that breed is available at auction. And people new to poultry or silkies do not necessarily know the breeders and who has good quality of a specific variety they are interested in.

Blacks equal whites as far as quality is concerned.
Where are you from, around here it's not uncommon for the blacks to rival the whites.

Im in Maryland.
I know its not uncommon for them to rival whites. How many shows though, honestly do they do that?
And to add, how many partridge, gray, buff rival whites? I think my point is being missed here.
Its seems old time true breeders are dying off, and people now want quick to win birds or the new hot color instead of working on certain varieties "that are already in the standard'' and getting consistant birds from breeder to breeder. One has to remember why there are shows in the first place. breeders setting birds to type and variety that has been set by the associations. I do work with AOV's and love them, but you'll not find them in a show hall until they are ready.

On the other hand, I WANT my AOVs to be seen once they have all silkie features: feathering, toes, skin, comb, crest, etc. I WANT feedback on my progress, both from judges and from other silkie breeders. I shows a much too young khaki cockeral becuase I KNEW there would be lots of breeders and judges there. Eric Kutch who is a BEAR about colour, and is known for not really liking anything except whites told me he really LIKED the colouring of my khaki. He mentioned the areas that I already knew I still need to work on, and that is fine. I also got feedback from a lot of current silkie breeders (Eric is/was well known for his white silkies) about the khaki and my other AOV birds.

Buff is always going to be a challenge, because in order to get the color, you have to deal with some blk in the tail. I worked on buff for several years, until I decided that the number of culls for color was way too high - in other words, I believe buff is for masochists!
Then why is it in the standard, if breeders cannot get the variety right? Might want to lump gray in there too. No one can find the original breeders and they had to have passed/ w/o problems on their variety?
It's not that breeders can't get it right, it's just a more difficult variety to perfect, with more culls than what's seen in many other varieties.

I agree with that.​

 

[Three Cedars Silkies]

That khaki boy was gorgeous, Suze. I was so impressed with how uniform his color was. Do you mind if I post a picture of him? I'm sure I took one....

 

[bacres]

WOW this is becoming a heated discussion. I really like the new colors but I also like the Drop dead gorgeous Whites.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

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Sure

The colour of some of my breeder birds has been patchy, but I do think it is coming out right in this generation.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

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My only problem with whites is that in the fierce Arizona sun I smiply cannot keep them white enough; even when they are in the shade full time. But a sparkling white is indeed gorgeous.

I think that part of the reason it might seem to be getting heated is that those of us who work with and love AOV is that we get SO much grief about it. I very STRONGLY believe that one should be able to choose the breed or variety that speaks to their heart without being told that some other breed, or variety or criteria for selecting a breed or variety is "better" or "more worthy."