Self Blue OEGB ?

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by Flawedatdesign, Sep 30, 2011.

  1. Flawedatdesign

    Flawedatdesign Chillin' With My Peeps

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    May 18, 2011
    Dixon Missouri
    Okay bought a tri today of year old birds. The guy said to keep the blue trait I need to breed the hens with a black roo. Kinda lost on that info really.
     
  2. AquaEyes

    AquaEyes Chillin' With My Peeps

    Quote:The lavender gene is an autosomal recessive dilution gene that dilutes black to a soft, flat gray -- sometimes called "lavender" and sometimes called "self-blue" (which is distinct from Andalusian blue, an incomplete dominant autosomal recessive gene, which is variably lacy in its look, with feather edges usually darker than feather centers). If the bird isn't also black, the gene won't have any black feathers to dilute to "self-blue" or "lavender." To get the color we identify as "lavender" or "self blue" you must have a bird that has two copies of that dilution gene, and black feathers somewhere for the dilution to work upon.

    If you want solid "lavender" or "self-blue" chickens, you would need a bird that is genetically solid black and also carries two copies of the "lavender" or "self-blue" gene. Your trio fit this description. If you breed them to birds that are solid black, you will get offspring that are also solid black, but have one copy of the "self-blue" or "lavender" gene. For the dilution to show, the bird needs two copies. So you can breed one member of your trio to a black, then take offspring from that and breed it to one of the other members of your trio. Doing so, you will get 50% black birds split to self-blue, and 50% self blue birds.

    If you want the lavender color in a pattern (cuckoo, for example), you could get that too. The dilution will change the black areas to a soft gray, so a "lavender" or "self-blue" cuckoo will be white and gray barred.

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  3. Flawedatdesign

    Flawedatdesign Chillin' With My Peeps

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    May 18, 2011
    Dixon Missouri
    Wow lol i'll have to read that a few times lol to let it all soak in.
     
  4. AquaEyes

    AquaEyes Chillin' With My Peeps

    OK, here's a simplified version: look at your birds. Are they solid-colored? Or are they some kind of pattern? Whichever they are, to maintain them through breeding, you have to find birds that are the same (i.e. also solid, or the same pattern) but with black in place of self-blue. When you breed the self-blue to birds of the same pattern but with black in place of the self-blue color, the first generation will all be black but carry one copy of the self-blue gene. If you breed these offspring (with one copy of the self-blue gene) back to the birds that show self-blue (with two copies of the self-blue gene), you'll get half that show the self-blue, and half that are black but carry one copy of the self-blue gene. That's what the person meant by you needing to breed them to blacks to maintain the color.

    So if you have self-blue cuckoos, breed them to black cuckoos (white and black bars on the feathers). If they are solid self-blue, breed them to solid blacks.

    Does that make sense?

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  5. Flawedatdesign

    Flawedatdesign Chillin' With My Peeps

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    May 18, 2011
    Dixon Missouri
    Clear as mud thanks for the info. Now the search for a Solid black OEGB [​IMG]
     
  6. Illia

    Illia Crazy for Colors

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    Forks, WA
    In a nutshell the guy technically lied to you, since Self-Blue is actually Lavender, however what he's talking about is straight up Blue, no self in the name.

    Blue doesn't breed true and yes needs black to breed to.

    Self-Blue breeds just fine to Self-Blue in fact black just makes more blacks when bred to.
     
  7. AquaEyes

    AquaEyes Chillin' With My Peeps

    Quote:Self-Blue X Self-Blue = 100% Self-Blue

    Self-Blue X Black = 100% Black split Self-Blue

    Self-Blue X Black split Self-Blue = 50% Self-Blue, 50% Black split Self-Blue


    If you have solids, get solids in Black. If you have any other pattern, get the same pattern but with Black replacing the Self-Blue.

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  8. OtterCreekRanch

    OtterCreekRanch Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Mar 16, 2011
    NE Texas
    If you birds are in fact self blue (lavender) there is really no reason to get blacks at all.

    Even if your birds are blue (Andalusian blue) you really do not need blacks if you want to produce more blue offspring. Blue x Blue will still produce some blue chicks. If you want 100% blue then you will need to take the black offspring (produced by the first generation blue x blue mating) and breed to the splash offspring (double Andalusian blue, will also be produced by the original blue x blue mating).

    If you start talking about producing show quality birds you will probably want to use black to cross into them because blacks are more readily available closer to the standard of perfection which is what you will be wanting to breed towards. If you just want nice colored pets, no reason to buy blacks and get them involved.

    Are you sure what you have are self blues rather than blue? I wonder since the breeder told you that you would need to cross black into them to keep them blue which is not true of the self blues.
     
  9. gumbii

    gumbii Chillin' With My Peeps

    Oct 7, 2010
    bell gardens, ca
    my self blues...

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    my blues...

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  10. AquaEyes

    AquaEyes Chillin' With My Peeps

    Huh....it didn't occur to me that someone would sell Blues as "self-blues." I was thinking that "self-blues" (aka Lavender) in OEGB was rare, and that the OP would have a hard time finding others, so the seller was advising to use Blacks for outcrossing. But what was posted here is correct:

    You can breed Self-Blue X Self-Blue and not "need" Black, unless you needed to improve type by crossing to typey-Blacks, and breeding to Black is not necessary to get more Self-Blues.

    If the birds are Blue, then you may still outcross to Blacks to improve type, but it's not necessary to get more Blues.

    So in both cases, you don't technically "need" to breed to Black to get more of whatever you have, but if you "need" to outcross to another color, you should go with Black, since both "Self-Blue" and "Blue" are dilutions of Black.
     

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