Self Sufficient Breeding vs. Dual Purpose Breeding

[3KillerBs]

Why would I even want to reply to you, since you basically said you doubt that I'm doing what I'm doing, and what I've done for years? Don't call someone a liar and then ask how. Since, you obviously know it all, there's nothing for me to educate you about.

You might try actually READING my initial post again.

 

[raingarden]

I've had have hundreds of hens hatch out eggs nesting on the ground. Most find places that are very hidden. Plus, a sitting hen is totally still and quiet.

Yes, I understand that. But nesting is when they are most vulnerable.. I've watched dogs and mongoose find nests by smell. In turn, the nesting hen attempts to minimize her odor. She eats very little and does not poop near the nest. Eggs that are rotting are rolled away from the nest least they be broken. It gets dicey right at the end because hatching chicks have their own odor and the hen cannot lead them away from the nest for a day or so.

Chick mortality is very high in our feral flock as well. At least 75% do not live long enough to be weaned because of disease and predation. Disease and predation are related too because a chick that becomes lethargic and has a hard time keeping up is the first to be picked off.

 

[Christiancowboy]

Ooooh popcorn thread!
Can it be done? Maybe, I believe @Florida Bullfrog is doing a similar thing his youtube videos are quite informative and entertaining. He has got his hands on some actual feral chicken stock though I believe (I could be mistaken on this point). Is it possible for most people in most places? Probably not. I'm not sure if breeding in modern dual purpose lines would help, they all are giant piggies. My flock are great at free ranging for their food (grass, weeds, bugs, seeds, mice) but they still pig their way through what I feed them and still lay like they just don't care they're supposed to lay eggs. Ok I'm being a little unfair they've just finished their moults and they're not production layers.
If I had 10+ acres of prime forage land managed as an ecosytem and multiple fruit and nut trees maybe they would manage. There are certainly feral populations here (but only from dual purpose stock that's been dumped not actually feral chickens in the true sense). But I doubt they are productive in any way. If you want to shoot chickens for meat as needed then I can see it working. If you want eggs etc in any predictable way then probably not.

I've seen his videos. They are game chickens, and they survive on their own. He's penned some and is doing some breeding, and incubating eggs etc... just like I'm doing. The fact is, game chickens can survive on their own.
I'm just trying to add a little more size, while maintaining the self sufficiency of the game chickens. I'm looking for a 3/4 to 7/8 game blood. It's just a fun experiment I'm trying. I know my pure game chickens are self sufficient, so I have that as a given.

 

[TheFatBlueCat]

I'd be interested to see your results when you get there, I've done a bit of experimenting with crossbreeding, but more from a genetic diversity angle than self sufficient. Would you be trying to get a larger meat frame onto the game style body type?

I haven't got the time or space to have any dedicated programme, and I need to stick mostly with my pure lines as the surplus birds sell well and offset the cost of the birds I keep. But keen to see if adding only that much dual purpose will push you to an outcome of better framed birds who can still manage mostly on their own.

I've not got anything against letting a flock operate on survival of the fittest but it surely would depend on how many predators you have.

 

[Christiancowboy]

Yes, I understand that. But nesting is when they are most vulnerable.. I've watched dogs and mongoose find nests by smell. In turn, the nesting hen attempts to minimize her odor. She eats very little and does not poop near the nest. Eggs that are rotting are rolled away from the nest least they be broken. It gets dicey right at the end because hatching chicks have their own odor and the hen cannot lead them away from the nest for a day or so.

Chick mortality is very high in our feral flock as well. At least 75% do not live long enough to be weaned because of disease and predation. Disease and predation are related too because a chick that becomes lethargic and has a hard time keeping up is the first to be picked off.

I understand 100 percent everything your saying, and yes lots of chicks don't make it for one reason or another. However, many do make it, especially if you have a large flock, fencing, and protective dogs. I've never looked at our game chickens as feral, just because we didn't feed them and let them free range and fend for themselves. They still hang around and roost in the barns, trees, etc...

 

[Christiancowboy]

I'd be interested to see your results when you get there, I've done a bit of experimenting with crossbreeding, but more from a genetic diversity angle than self sufficient. Would you be trying to get a larger meat frame onto the game style body type?

I haven't got the time or space to have any dedicated programme, and I need to stick mostly with my pure lines as the surplus birds sell well and offset the cost of the birds I keep. But keen to see if adding only that much dual purpose will push you to an outcome of better framed birds who can still manage mostly on their own.

I've not got anything against letting a flock operate on survival of the fittest but it surely would depend on how many predators you have.

I've just started getting several pure breeds also that I'm establishing besides my pure game chickens. Like yourself, I plan to sell pure breeds, to foot the bill for my experiments of my different crosses. I'm incubating, several crosses, and trying to fast tract to 3/4 and 7/8 game blood. I'm at 3/4 game blood now in several various crosses.
As for predators, I've had my fair share, but am getting fences up. I'm working to get cross fenced into separate areas, so I can run different chickens in different areas free ranging and breeding. It's all a process, but lots of fun...

 

[raingarden]

I'm working to get cross fenced into separate areas, so I can run different chickens in different areas free ranging and breeding. It's all a process, but lots of fun...

What kind of fencing will you use? Our chickens just laugh at a fence. It's a minor impediment.

 

[Christiancowboy]

I'd be interested to see your results when you get there, I've done a bit of experimenting with crossbreeding, but more from a genetic diversity angle than self sufficient. Would you be trying to get a larger meat frame onto the game style body type?

I haven't got the time or space to have any dedicated programme, and I need to stick mostly with my pure lines as the surplus birds sell well and offset the cost of the birds I keep. But keen to see if adding only that much dual purpose will push you to an outcome of better framed birds who can still manage mostly on their own.

I've not got anything against letting a flock operate on survival of the fittest but it surely would depend on how many predators you have.

Sorry, I didn't answer your question, but yes I'm trying to add a little more meat and size, while still maintaining the self sufficiency of the game chickens. I've got several crosses going, and yes, I'll be selective cross breeding my crosses in various ways.

 

[Christiancowboy]

What kind of fencing will you use? Our chickens just laugh at a fence. It's a minor impediment.

I'm putting up 8 foot field fences, with chicken wire 4 foot high wired to the field fencing.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I'm putting up 8 foot field fences, with chicken wire 4 foot high wired to the field fencing.

If they are like mine, they will immediately hop to the 4' height and cross over - that's what they do with all my gates, and a couple will actually flap and "walk" up chicken wire to get a bit higher, so they can go over. I added stand off electric fencing to "discourage" that behavior.

Actually, game fowl should be better at it than mine, since my mutts are mostly from heavier bodied dual purpose breeds - Brahma, Wynadotte, "Rainbows" (Hoover Hatchery), and some spawn of Comets - my smallest birds.