Serious Neglect Case

[cowcreekgeek]

I have no problem with culling, although I was willing to take a mallard to the vet for him but he doesn't like anyone helping with his animals. It all comes down to basics of care which he is not even meeting according to law. I understand what you are saying but I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree. Withholding food and water for long periods of time is not acceptable, nor are the filthy conditions. When it comes to the point that so many of your flock are dying form dehydration/starvation/preventable disease (and not being culled to at least stop their suffering) that you've run out of room in a large freezer to keep them and you start just throwing them over the fence, then something definitely needs to be done. Thanks for your advice, I do truly appreciate your opinion but I refuse to stand by and do nothing. Perhaps if more people made a stand, perceptions of "utilitarian" animals could change and their need to be treated just as humanely as any other animal could be recognized.

Truth is plural, in that even honest folks can draw differing conclusion from the same facts ... that doesn't mean we necessarily disagree ...

For certain, when "animals" (which includes aves w/in your state) suffer from neglect, then something absolutely should be done about it. And, for certain, the conditions you've described fall short of even those lowest standards of legal requirement ... however, in North Carolina? The maximum penalty, even for the worst imaginable cases, is 6 months in jail, and fines are capped at $1,000. There are no provisions for mandatory counseling of offenders, and, although their animals may be taken? The Courts can't prevent them from owning another ... can't imagine the logic behind that one.

To "deprive of necessary sustenance" is a Class 1 misdemeanor, and to kill by "intentional deprivation of necessary sustenance" is a Class A1 misdemeanor. However, there are exemptions w/in North Carolina's abuse statutes ...
Quoting relevant points from § 14-360:
(c) However, this section shall not apply to the following activities:
(2) Lawful activities conducted for purposes of biomedical research or training or for purposes of production of livestock, poultry, or aquatic species.
(2a) Lawful activities conducted for the primary purpose of providing food for human or animal consumption.

So, when I suggested that the Investigator/Officer from Animal Control failed to perform his/her duties? I was mistaken, as there is most probably nothing they could do, unless it could be established that his activities were not lawfully conducted.

It sounds as if you're in a suburban/city setting, so perhaps you could look to see if he's in violation of Code/Ordinance(s) by having 'em where they are. After seein' how he's treated 'em? Perhaps they'd be confiscated, if allowed, or he might at least be fined for his violation, so as to force him to give 'em to somebody (anybody) else. But, in this case? That may be about all you can do.

 

[SphynxDoberman]

Well he has mallards and wood ducks so we are heading that route as well (wildlife). AC has informed me that they can check in on him if they know where he moves too (after much persistence on my part) but we are still working to get these current animals out. I don't know about NC, but other states do ban people from owning pets and I think that would be an appropriate route to pursue into law here after all this mess is over. Needless to say, I and a few other people are going to persistently pursue this and if the system fails us and these animals, well, we will try other routes including the media. Laws can change although I know it will be like pushing an elephant up a mountain, but I am definitely not a person that can stand for injustices.

 

[SphynxDoberman]

Oh, just one more thing. I am pretty much glued to my computer frequently because of the work I do on it, so it is usually easy for me to get back to people quickly but my computer may be out of commission for a few days starting this morning. I'm not ignoring anybody, just can't get on for a bit as I'm taking it to get fixed. Hopefully I will be back with updates for any people following this thread still. I honestly hope to be posting good news next time I'm on here. Well I am off to get a few hours of sleep before I take this computer in.

 

[janinepeters]

I hope the pictures of the dead and injured will hopefully stand for something. He has a bunch of them in his freezer so maybe they can seize and examine those?

Now that is an interesting idea. A necropsy on these birds might reveal the nutritional conditions they were in prior to death. But necropsies are expensive, and I cannot see anyone state or humane organization footing the bill for that, unless you do it.

So here's my thought: if it is determined that care is "adequate", write a story featuring your photos and videos and your other observations, and put it on the internet. A blog, perhaps. The thrust of the story could be that such deplorable conditions for backyard poultry are actually permitted by law. This is important public education. And as you seem to be a budding activist, your first task as such could be to get a group together to try to change these laws. So, while you might not be able to do anything about this particular case in the here and now, your work on this could ultimately benefit many more future animals.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

Now that is an interesting idea. A necropsy on these birds might reveal the nutritional conditions they were in prior to death. But necropsies are expensive, and I cannot see anyone state or humane organization footing the bill for that, unless you do it.

So here's my thought: if it is determined that care is "adequate", write a story featuring your photos and videos and your other observations, and put it on the internet. A blog, perhaps. The thrust of the story could be that such deplorable conditions for backyard poultry are actually permitted by law. This is important public education. And as you seem to be a budding activist, your first task as such could be to get a group together to try to change these laws. So, while you might not be able to do anything about this particular case in the here and now, your work on this could ultimately benefit many more future animals.

You've been postin' some level-headed responses, w/ really good advice. But, she really shouldn't touch the birds, as they are potentially evidence as/where they are ... private necropsy would most probably not even be admissible, unless there was some manner of proving absolutely that these were indeed the same animals, and that they died of neglect while under his care.

I've often seen one event inspire changes w/in people, that inspire changes w/in others, who inspire changes w/in man's laws ... let's hope so ~'-)

 

[janinepeters]

You've been postin' some level-headed responses, w/ really good advice. But, she really shouldn't touch the birds, as they are potentially evidence as/where they are ... private necropsy would most probably not even be admissible, unless there was some manner of proving absolutely that these were indeed the same animals, and that they died of neglect while under his care.

I've often seen one event inspire changes w/in people, that inspire changes w/in others, who inspire changes w/in man's laws ... let's hope so ~'-)

I certainly did not mean she should take the dead birds and do the necropsy herself. I agree that would be ridiculous, since she is not a vet, and her own report on a necropsy would be legally meaningless. I just meant that she might have to offer to foot the bill, in order to get an investigating authority to send the bodies for necropsy.

Actually, as I think of it, the tissues are probably too deteriorated by now for a necropsy to be useful. I've been told that freezing ruins the tissue. They want birds refrigerated, not frozen, for 3 days or less, in order to get meaningful info from a necropsy. But it would be worth it to inquire about it. Maybe general info, such as whether the bird was in poor overall nutritional condition, could be determined even if tissue is in bad shape.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

I certainly did not mean she should take the dead birds and do the necropsy herself. I agree that would be ridiculous, since she is not a vet, and her own report on a necropsy would be legally meaningless. I just meant that she might have to offer to foot the bill, in order to get an investigating authority to send the bodies for necropsy.

Actually, as I think of it, the tissues are probably too deteriorated by now for a necropsy to be useful. I've been told that freezing ruins the tissue. They want birds refrigerated, not frozen, for 3 days or less, in order to get meaningful info from a necropsy. But it would be worth it to inquire about it. Maybe general info, such as whether the bird was in poor overall nutritional condition, could be determined even if tissue is in bad shape.

No ... didn't mean that, either -- just that she, as an individual, has no right to or authority over the birds, and that those that do would have to be the one(s) collecting evidence, otherwise they would most likely be useless against him in Court (however unlikely he'd be to find himself there either way).

And, you're right about the fact they've been frozen ... although I suspect they could still make a determination as to if the birds suffered from acute lack of water or severe malnourishment, but to be certain enough as to being definitively the cause of death? I'd be surprised as well ...

What a sad, sad world.

 

[giddyupchick]

Hi everyone, I'm hoping someone can advice me on what to do about this situation... I was riding my horse here in Santa Barbara on a nature preserve (horses allowed) and came across a very small, dilapitated coop with 6 pecked up hens inside. this preserve bumps up to a few backyards of some houses. The coop is around 4 ft x 4 ft square & around 5ft high, looked very predator proof and had a combination lock on the gate, almost no water & was filthy, had almost no food & it was some kind of a powder. Eggs were piled high & looked to me that no one had checked on them in a while. I parked my horse & nocked on the door but no answer, then I called a friend that works for animal investigations & left him a message, no reply as of yet. I'm tempted to sneak back with my wire snips & cut out a hole for the hens to escape. Thoughts, advice please?????

 

[TalkALittle]

Do you realize that you piggybacked your post on a two year old thread? You might get a better response if you start a new thread.

 

[giddyupchick]

Ooops! I'm not very computer savy...