Serious Neglect Case

[SphynxDoberman]

So, update. Spoke to the landlord and he's letting CK keep the birds and told him no more animals. He is making CK care for them properly in the meantime but CK has decided he will move in July. So that means he can freely do what he wants again. I called AC back today and guilt tripped them. An officer is going by tomorrow but I told him no one would be home (I know their schedules) and even if there was, he won't find anything because of the landlord making CK care for them now. However, the officer is still going and is going to leave a note on the door but I don't know how much good that will do. I did get the officer to agree to see the evidence at least when I get back to Raleigh in a week or two. However, some of my contacts are pushing me to go public with this. So I switched my youtube videos from unlisted to public for easier access and provided my channel url to the rescue contact who is going to send these videos out to people. I also left a message with the SPCA.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Breezamon?feature=mhee

This is the link for my videos if anyone wants to see them.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

Hey guys, here's an update.

I spoke to the landlord on Tuesday and he was pretty nice. Made me feel like all my worries were for nothing. However, he is very close to CK (although can't quite figure out why he didn't check the property for so long). He guaranteed that the birds would have to go and he would let me get them to the great rescue I have lined up for them. He didn't really want AC involved but I told him I had already informed a lot of people.

So the landlord is coming over tomorrow to speak with CK; meanwhile CK has been cleaning like crazy and actually fed and watered his birds the other day.
Today I also called AC. Everything was going good until then. They sound genuinely uninterested in this case. The officer said he was have to see something wrong right then, my 4 months of evidence non-withstanding. He knows that the landlord is going to speak with CK tomorrow so the officer told me to call him back next week if the problem still hadn't been resolved.

Here is the kicker. I called the landlord after but refrained from telling him AC is disinterested because I didn't want him to renig on getting the birds out of there. However, he is now saying that he wants to give CK a chance. What I feel will happen will be that if that happens, CK will care for the birds until he feels like the landlord is out of his hair. So I told the landlord that these birds need immediate attention and AC would be out there is CK didn't agree to give the birds up to the rescue (so I fibbed a bit). I am unsure if this will sufficiently pressure them. I am additionally worried that CK will just move them to his partner's house or give them away just to spite me.

I am leaving tonight so I am not around tomorrow when the landlord basically tells CK that I ratted him out. CK comes off as a very nice person but I have noticed passive aggressive tendencies and I am telling the truth when I say I am afraid to be around after this. I am moving but my stuff will be here the rest of this month but at least me and my critters will be safe.

Please help, I need some more advice!

First thing you should do -- before you finish reading this -- is get your animals to a safe place.

Although I can offer you no legal advice, I will remind that issues of morally wrong are frequently different from legally wrong. CK, if properly charged and ultimately convicted, would be guilty of a Class 1 Misdemeanor, for each and every individual bird that he allegedly abused, according to § 14-360.

NC also has additional civil remedies, however, it appears that CK's purposes would offer him and his poor birds exemption.

Bluffs or deception rarely work, which is why I wouldn't employ such tactics ... easy enough to say I'd do this 'n that about it, but it's not my home I'd be risking, or the health of my animals (for which he'd surely die for any intentional harm of), or my other personal property. As for 'taking matters into your own hands' there is absolutely *no* defense you could offer for taking any illegal action ... the laws of your state extend powers to the investigator only, which is why you should most probably find a somebody that is actually willing to do their job properly.

In truth, you may have violated laws by uploading the images, although I'm reasonably sure you had every legal right to take pictures/videos w/in the home you were living, even w/o his permission, and that they should stand as prima facie evidence of his offenses. For proof that your evidence should be sufficient, see the following report, in which a Butterball employee pled guilty to felony animal cruelty charges, based upon video recordings.

What I would *absolutely* do, once you've got yourself situated better, is approach the head of whichever Department of the College CK's workin' for, and make certain they dismiss him from his employment. And, should they fail? I'd go exactly one step over their head, and demand appropriate action. And, so on, documenting my efforts in a lawful manner along the way, and then go public w/ my story if you make it all the way to the top w/o anything being done. I would NOT threaten to go public, should my demands not be met ... that'd be a felony, on your part.

And, finally? As you hug your pets lovingly, send up a prayer of thanks that God made you incapable of so much as ignoring such a thing, and one for CK as well, that God might put w/in his tiny/empty heart even the slightest spark of compassion/empathy.

 

[SphynxDoberman]

Well my animals and I have been out since last Friday thankfully. My belongings are still there but I value lives more than my belongings. I've taken pictures of my belongings and room just in case though. I've done my best to go about this as rightfully as possible. I won't be threatening to go public which is where I think the trouble will come in, it's simply a matter of fact; if nothing is done, this evidence will be broadcast to the public. Right now, the youtube files are simply available for public viewing to make it easier for my contacts to show it to the right people. If some random person happens to see them I don't think much will come of it. I posted it on here for some of the people to see whom have been giving me advice. It's nice not to feel like I am fighting this all alone.
Unfortunately, going to the department head is no use. The poultry department treats their birds just as badly, if not worse. I know because I have rescue buddies that used to work for my university. My university is an agriculture university after all, they've had things brought up to them but the university vet and other officials that work for the ag departments pretty much covers for them. There is not much I can do for those animals, however I can help these pet birds. They are definitely not utilitarian. He doesn't eat them, nor do they leg eggs. Honestly, I think he just keeps them to experiment with breeding. I have checked our county bylaws and he is breaking several codes. However, our AC is not known for a willingness to investigate any cruelty. I am giving them a shot though, but some of my other contacts are going a different route. One of my contacts actually has federal permits for wild birds as well as a rescue for domestic birds so she has been my go to for some of this stuff. I do appreciate your concern and advice though and I hope I will be updating soon.

 

[janinepeters]

Well, I just watched most of the videos, and while I personally find the level of "care" provided to be disgusting, I have to say that I don't think it is at all uncommon. Nor is it any worse than the care provided to billions of animals in Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations, assuming the videos of factory farms all over the internet do represent reality. Have you seen any of those videos, Sphinxdoberman?

Most people I know consider "livestock" to be deserving of a much lower standard of care than pets. Keeping backyard chickens has become popular where I live, and I would say about half of those I know who have them, rarely rinse the waterers, and probably never wash them with soap or disinfectant. Some make water available to the animals at all time, while others water them once or twice a day. I don't know much about humane laws, but my understanding is that farm animals are not protected at the same level as pets, and I would have thought that the care provided by this man in your videos is considered "acceptable". So I am very interested to see what comes of this case.

In one of your videos you mentioned food in the form of "powder" rather than pellets, and wondered if there is something wrong about that. I could not see it in the video very well, but poultry feeds do come in the form of "crumbles", which do appear powdery. So it is possible that the food was perfectly good feed.

Finally, while you showed some sick looking birds, some of them actually appeared to be in pretty good condition.

I am not saying that what's in those videos is good, I'm just saying that I will be very surprised (and pleased!) if the "authorities" (whoever they turn out to be, in this case), conclude that this is indeed a case of neglect. I suspect they will conclude it's adequate care for livestock.

 

[janinepeters]

My university is an agriculture university after all, they've had things brought up to them but the university vet and other officials that work for the ag departments pretty much covers for them. There is not much I can do for those animals, however I can help these pet birds. They are definitely not utilitarian. He doesn't eat them, nor do they leg eggs. Honestly, I think he just keeps them to experiment with breeding.

But isn't it species, rather than use, that determines whether an animal is "livestock"? I thought that chickens and ducks were considered livestock, regardless of what they are kept for.

 

[SphynxDoberman]

Don't know, but our county laws specify any animals that water and food is withheld from is animals cruelty. Even if it may be acceptable, the only way to change things is to cry out. These animals are often without food for days to weeks at a time. Water, well I've seen him water them twice. Thankfully, NC is pretty rainy and they will get what water they can from the mud however many of them have still died. They may look in good condition but feeling them, they feel pretty bony. I've worked with birds before and I know the conditions they are supposed to be in. I do agree that less care is given to livestock which is a shame. Personally I don't eat meat/dairy etc because I do know about factory farming and have seen those videos (although I will eat eggs if they come from a good place). I have even been in the midst of it before as I was in the FFA and worked at a few chicken houses. I've also worked at exotic animals sanctuaries and we would go to hen houses to pick up the dead birds to feed to some of our large predators. Disgusting conditions but not much I can do to help those animals (the chickens, not the exotics). That's one of the reasons why I am so intent on helping these guys. Personally, I wouldn't care if he was eating them as long as they were being cared for properly. Don't get me wrong, even though I limit my diet, I hunt and fish because I do believe in humane use of animals if necessary (the meat if for my family and my pets). This is not humane at all though and is in fact rather disgusting. So I sure hope people start taking a stand because as I see it, a life is a life and even if we are ending a life, all creatures deserve humane treatment and a respectable end. Hopefully they will agree with you that's this is a horrible way to care for any animal and look past the fact that they are chickens/ducks.

He feeds corn and pellets. I was remarking that the pellets had all turned into dust because I guess it had gotten wet and the birds were unable to eat it. You can ignore most of my mumbling though. I have a tendency to talk to myself and the critters but it is not always stuff that makes sense that comes out of my mouth

 

[janinepeters]

I totally agree with your sentiments, admire your taking a stand, and I truly hope you make some progress on this case. But it might be very hard to prove he does not water or feed them adequately, without a vet's statement that they were examined and found to be starving and/or were insufficiently hydrated, or that dead ones were found to have died from dehydration or starvation. I don't think the videos will count for much. He can always say he fed them or watered them at some time other than when you video taped. It will be your word against his. Anyway, I hope I'm wrong, and look forward to reading what happens here.

 

[SphynxDoberman]

Me too. Just keep your fingers crossed for these poor birds. I hope the pictures of the dead and injured will hopefully stand for something. He has a bunch of them in his freezer so maybe they can seize and examine those?

 

[cowcreekgeek]

Well my animals and I have been out since last Friday thankfully. My belongings are still there but I value lives more than my belongings. I've taken pictures of my belongings and room just in case though. I've done my best to go about this as rightfully as possible. I won't be threatening to go public which is where I think the trouble will come in, it's simply a matter of fact; if nothing is done, this evidence will be broadcast to the public. Right now, the youtube files are simply available for public viewing to make it easier for my contacts to show it to the right people. If some random person happens to see them I don't think much will come of it. I posted it on here for some of the people to see whom have been giving me advice. It's nice not to feel like I am fighting this all alone.
Unfortunately, going to the department head is no use. The poultry department treats their birds just as badly, if not worse. I know because I have rescue buddies that used to work for my university. My university is an agriculture university after all, they've had things brought up to them but the university vet and other officials that work for the ag departments pretty much covers for them. There is not much I can do for those animals, however I can help these pet birds. They are definitely not utilitarian. He doesn't eat them, nor do they leg eggs. Honestly, I think he just keeps them to experiment with breeding.
I have checked our county bylaws and he is breaking several codes. However, our AC is not known for a willingness to investigate any cruelty. I am giving them a shot though, but some of my other contacts are going a different route. One of my contacts actually has federal permits for wild birds as well as a rescue for domestic birds so she has been my go to for some of this stuff. I do appreciate your concern and advice though and I hope I will be updating soon.

Again? Moral and Legal are often two entirely different concepts.
And, what you believe to be good 'n proper care, and what has been codified w/in your State, appears to be two entirely different concepts ...


The advice I provide folks here on BYC demonstrates well that there are huge differences between those that keep a few chickens that they love, and those that keep them primarily for the commercial/agricultural/scientific purposes.

The first question, so as to filter my suggestions: Does the chicken have a name?

Chicken(s) w/ name(s) have ...

• what their owner(s) believe to be the best foods free choice (w/ lots of fun 'n tasty treats ~'-)
• spaces generously measured in square feet per bird
• most probably have been (or will be) taken to the vet (if one is available that will look at poultry)
• the chance to die of old age, even if they present a risk to the remainder of their smaller flock

Chicken(s) w/o name(s) have ...

• what is req'd nutritionally to produce the desired result (depending on whether they're broilers to layers)
• spaces measured more carefully, often in cubic inches per bird (or even square inches per pound)
• the chance to serve their specific purpose, provided they do not endanger the much larger flock

Well, that's pretty much the extremes, w/ most folks landin' somewhere in between, but I'm hopin' to make a point here that might help you to see this a bit differently -- there's no way I can justify my flocks economically, 'cause I could probably buy all the eggs I want for the rest of my life for so much less than I've already spent. But, I don't want eggs produced in some commercial facility, or w/ the chemicals or hormones they most often use. Although I benefit greatly from the research done by institutions like the one you attend? Their goals are geared more towards higher productivity and lower cost, rather than improving the quality of my chicken's life ... and, they'll most likely do some things I wouldn't, even in the name of science/research.

In the short time I've been on BYC, I've walked quite a few folks through illnesses/diseases that their beloved pets survived, whereas I've instructed others to cull every bird showing the exact same symptoms -- not because they couldn't survive, but because (in their very different circumstances) they shouldn't have been allowed to: Their owners could not afford to take the increased risk that weakened/diseased birds present to their flocks.

I'm certain that you see this as harsh, and cruel, but the very fact that you do should make you keenly aware that your perceptions of what is adequate care might differ considerably from what all these others do ... and, in light of this newly adjusted perspective, measure what you've seen against the bare minimums considered legally acceptable (which I personally find terribly harsh, and truly cruel )-;~

 

[SphynxDoberman]

I have no problem with culling, although I was willing to take a mallard to the vet for him but he doesn't like anyone helping with his animals. It all comes down to basics of care which he is not even meeting according to law. I understand what you are saying but I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree. Withholding food and water for long periods of time is not acceptable, nor are the filthy conditions. When it comes to the point that so many of your flock are dying form dehydration/starvation/preventable disease (and not being culled to at least stop their suffering) that you've run out of room in a large freezer to keep them and you start just throwing them over the fence, then something definitely needs to be done. Thanks for your advice, I do truly appreciate your opinion but I refuse to stand by and do nothing. Perhaps if more people made a stand, perceptions of "utilitarian" animals could change and their need to be treated just as humanely as any other animal could be recognized.