Service Animals Redefined...

[annaraven]

And this is where you lose any credibility whatsoever. It is not a "selfish need", it is a *right* to shop at the same stores and have the same *public* access that you have. Service dogs are not just pets; they are necessary accommodations so that people with disabilities can have access to what you take for granted. You are the one being selfish by suggesting that people with disabilities shouldn't have the right to enter a store because *you* don't happen to like service dogs.

 

[Jamie_Dog_Trainer]

This is a really interesting thread.

Service animals is a really hot topic with most of the trainers I know. I have been asked many times to train a service dog, but I always decline those clients. First of all most people dont' have the money to pay for 2 years of constant training it would take to have the dog trained privately. I added up my costs for that once, and I only charge $35-45/hr for a lesson (so I am very inexpensive compared to other trainers in my are who charge $85-150/hr). For two years of training it would cost about $60,000!!! And could be a whole lot more depending on what the client wanted.

I think there should be a universal "test" for service animals no matter what the animal is there for. All service dogs should be stable with no social temperament problems. Be trained to a specific level of obedience, and have training for these things regularly. I have issues with some people claiming their dog is there for emotional needs when the dog is obviously not trained, not socialized and not really a "safe" dog for large public venues such as eating establishments, grocery stores, ect.

Several months ago I was in Lowes, there was a blind woman there with her dog. This was a great sight to be seen, the dog was doing its job very well, calm, collected, on alert for obsticles. Obviously this dog was doing his job -- BUT-- then another customer came in with is small mixed breed dog. I watched intently as this small breed dog began posturing to this Service lab. As they approached eachother the owner of the mixed breed didn't do anything about it though he tightened his leash in a "oh boy not again" kind of way. The handler of the service dog was apparnetly used to her dog reacting too because she heard the mixed breed dog bark, then she tensed up too. This Seeing Eye dog lunged for this small dog, barking, scrambling his feet on the floor and in general acting rediculous.

To me, no matter how well the dog did without another dog around, this dog was pretty much useless. I don't know if this service dog was a victim of poor handling and training, or had a bad temperament. But either way this was something that had been going on for a long time.

 

[CoyoteMagic]

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Just wagging my tail a little, as the dog pictured on the right is a CCI dog (blue vest w/CCI's logo).

Yeah, I thought you would like that!

Ya'll are one of the good guys! Working to help people, not for the $$$

 

[CoyoteMagic]

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[chickpeaz]

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I agree 100%. Our first CCI puppy was released from the program for hip & elbow dysplasia and we adopted her and brought her home. After her first two years of intensive training, she would never have been happy just being a lazy couch dog, so we had her immediately CGC and TDI (Therapy Dog International) certified. Both tests were an excellent gauge of temperament and control, and I felt that the judges really had the best interest of the dogs, the handlers and the public in mind. I felt very confident in Kali's abilities once we had that certification in hand.

She went on to do some limited pediatric visitation and school literacy programs -- even with those certs it was obvious that her comfort zone was with kids. She got nervous in nursing homes and clinical hospital settings. She was trained well enough to respond well even through her nervousness, but it's important to bear in mind that even the best-trained dog has places and situations that are discomfiting. CCI's primary concern with their graduating dogs is always making the best possible match between dog and handler and day-to-day expectations -- it was the least I could do for Kali to maintain her highest comfort level with whatever "work" she ended up doing.

 

[CoyoteMagic]

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I agree 100%. Our first CCI puppy was released from the program for hip & elbow dysplasia and we adopted her and brought her home. After her first two years of intensive training, she would never have been happy just being a lazy couch dog, so we had her immediately CGC and TDI (Therapy Dog International) certified. Both tests were an excellent gauge of temperament and control, and I felt that the judges really had the best interest of the dogs, the handlers and the public in mind. I felt very confident in Kali's abilities once we had that certification in hand.

She went on to do some limited pediatric visitation and school literacy programs -- even with those certs it was obvious that her comfort zone was with kids. She got nervous in nursing homes and clinical hospital settings. She was trained well enough to respond well even through her nervousness, but it's important to bear in mind that even the best-trained dog has places and situations that are discomfiting. CCI's primary concern with their graduating dogs is always making the best possible match between dog and handler and day-to-day expectations -- it was the least I could do for Kali to maintain her highest comfort level with whatever "work" she ended up doing.

DEFINATELY!! My friend with the dog that was attacked, 3rd dog was great in public EXCEPT he was terrified of elevators. My friend is in a wheelchair now so elevators are definately needed, but it wasn't fair to McCarthy. Things worked out, however. Bo, the dog who was attacked, suffers from seizures as result of his injuries. McCarthy stays at home now and alerts to Bo's oncoming seizures. He chose this job for himself and my friend cares enough for her dogs to give him up to Bo.

ETA---This has resulted in my friend having to rely on humans who are not nearly as reliable as a well trained Service Dog partner.

 

[Sierra pachie bars]

The dogs give their human partner help that often is human might not be around for. Like getting dressed. The average person might not see that as a challenge. But for some people it is. I have had days where I had to be helped by my dog by pulling s shirt or sock. Or him getting my shoes. I can ask Milo to do th same thing a hundred times and he will get it a hundred times. A human would get annoyed after awhile. A dog is not for everyone, and I agree people abuse it and it ruins those of us that need them. But someone telling people who needs dog and who doesn't by looking at them is wrong. I do not honesty see why people using dog to help the should be a issue. I think if anyone can get help for whatever their disability is them its wonderful. Now if someone doesnt have a disability and lies just to take their dog in makes me upset. I once had a girl tell me she would carry her dog in places and joke it was her seeing eye dog. I could not believe she was telling me this.
One thing to remember is a service dog , vs a SDit (service dog in training ). Most dogs in training are not going to act perfect. They need to get out there and get exposed to sights , smells and sounds.
I think it is wonderful to get help anyways we can.

 

[c is 4 cochin]

There are many people who have different types of disabilities that are hidden, those that are able to care for themselves do. Those that need assistance under the new rules will be denied of having any form of independence. Per the first page link posted. There will always be someone trying to take advantage of situations. No shortage of those people. But it does create a hardship for those who really need help. It’s a monumental task to weed out those taking advantage of the system.

For those that think that people should only rely on other people. Let us all know how well you are doing should you lose your independence and have to rely totally on people. You have no idea of how disheartening it is to listen to someone who is supposed to help you. . . do nothing but whine and whine and whine about how far they had to drive to pick you up or how much of their own time you are now taking up. Or how much of a chore it is to care for you. And they never shut up. Those with handicaps have lost doctor’s appointments etc. . . . because of someone they have to depend on forgot to come get them or for some other reason. You know, they make the poor person feel ashamed for calling on them to do a small task.

People who are truly compassionate won’t complain, but they are rare. By the sound of a few posts it sounds like dog trainers won’t train a service dog unless they are paid which comes to a big sum of money. Why not an affordable flat rate?, oh no. . . you want to be paid by the hour. Already you are whining about how long it takes and the hours put in. You are whining because a dog that “you” did not train is out there and isn’t perfect.

People who don’t want service dogs out in public end up changing their tune when they themselves are in the exact position of another. We can all say we understand MrsSmith’s problem and yet not fully understand what she is going through unless we all have the exact same set of circumstances as she. You just don’t get it. You shouldn’t judge people or criticize them until you . . .yourself have walked a thousand miles in their shoes.

 

[redhen]

Yes, its a shame that SO many have abused their "service dog" status.... and ruined it for the TRULY needy.
Personally, i think its cool to see them in stores and such... they always make me smile to see them so dedicated to their people.
And i've also seen some that i KNOW were not "real" service dogs. Just needy/fake/whiney/hypochondriac people using them to get attention and get their way in places or to help them get a monthly check ..
Tis a shame... now they ruined it for the TRULY needy folks.

 

[annaraven]

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THIS I agree with.