Sex- linked Information

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by tadkerson, Oct 27, 2009.

  1. nicalandia

    nicalandia Overrun With Chickens

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    if you use a Barred Rock Hen and a Splash colored Rooster then the headspot will show up as it does in Cuckoo "Lavender" Ameraucanas too
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Ridgerunner

    Ridgerunner True BYC Addict

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    The blue gene is kind of fun but I often get in trouble with it. I’m trying to hatch out some blues so I can get some actual experience with it. The basics of the blue gene are real simple and straightforward, but when you start to actually do something with it, well you don’t always get what you might expect.

    With the blue gene, if the chicken is pure for blue, which means both copies of that gene pair are blue, that’s called Splash. Splash is basically black and white.

    If the chicken is split for the blue gene you get Blue. That means one of that gene pair is blue and one is not-blue.

    If you do not have any blue gene, the default is black.

    The fun and frustration comes from the other genes that may be present. Obviously every chicken that is not either blue or splash is necessarily black. There are a lot of reds, whites, and other things out there. So it depends on what other genes are present as to how that Splash or Blue expresses itself. Usually it goes where black would normally go. If a chicken would normally be solid black but has either one or two copies of the blue gene you get a sold blue or solid splash chicken. I guess you consider a black and white splash chicken solid splash. Sometimes you may get a splash or blue tail. Maybe it shows up in barring or some other pattern color. You should be able to see that on your Blue Copper Maran, blue where a Black Copper would be black.

    Part of what I just did was to vent some frustration with blue. I keep getting on trouble with it, but I can give you a bit on the basics of what to expect. I understand your question to be what would a pullet look like from your Blue Copper Maran rooster over a Delaware hen?

    The Blue rooster might give a blue gene or a not-blue gene to his daughters. It’s a 50-50 chance either way. So some of his daughters would be blue and some would be black.

    Since the barred gene is a sex linked gene and the moterh has it but the father does not, the pullets would not be barred.

    Same with the gold/silver. The pullets would get a gold from their father and nothing from the Delaware, so any of that color that leaked through would be red, not yellow like the cockerels. With the Delaware contributing probably a wheaten and the Blue a birchen, I’d expect the pullets to have red necks in the adult plumage. I’m not sure about that but it is what I’d expect.

    I don’t know about your other question. I have no clue as to the genetics of those Americaunas.
     
  3. nicalandia

    nicalandia Overrun With Chickens

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    again.. using a Splash colored male over a barred rock will give you blue sex links.. females will be solid blue/grey. while males will have the white/cream headspot. not too difficult to see even on lavender which is a more diluted phenotye
     
  4. Daloorashens

    Daloorashens Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I read back a few pages and read some other posts about the Delawares.. interesting... I can see I have a great "Need" for a very large barn with many pens to do lots of 'practice' breeding, lol...

    Ok, so I understand how blue/black/splash works, so I could kind of think of the the Delaware as being black, when covered by the splash I would get blue chicks, as in other splash/black combinations, but because the Delaware is kind of "diluted", the head spot will still be there, just maybe a little harder to see... am I thinking about that correctly?

    So, then, the blue wheaten male over the Delaware would yield 50%blue, 50%black, with the males having the head spot and the females being solid, with the same issue of them perhaps being a little more diluted?

    And to make sure I am seeing what you are... the lavendar cuckoo chicks in the example above... are both males? I can clearly see the headspot on the chick on the right, pretty sure I can see it in the one on the left, but it could also be glare...
     
  5. aoxa

    aoxa Overrun With Chickens

    Just to confirm...

    Production Reds are not indeed sexable by colour, or are they?

    Thanks.
     
  6. farmerChef

    farmerChef Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Not that I know of, they are mixed up, egg laying red chickens. Kind of like Ideals 126 (or whatever number it is) Leghorn cross, only with brown eggs.
     
  7. Ridgerunner

    Ridgerunner True BYC Addict

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    Ok, so I understand how blue/black/splash works, so I could kind of think of the the Delaware as being black, when covered by the splash I would get blue chicks, as in other splash/black combinations, but because the Delaware is kind of "diluted", the head spot will still be there, just maybe a little harder to see... am I thinking about that correctly?

    If you cross a chicken that has Splash with one that does not have the blue gene at all, the resulting offspring will show blue if the other genes allow it. So that part is correct but there are combinations where the blue or black won’t show up at all even if the blue gene is present.

    Whether the chick has some blue or not doesn’t have a lot to do with whether you can see the spot. It’s the other genes that affect the down color and pattern. You seem to have changed from a Blue Copper Maran rooster over a Delaware hen to any Splash rooster over a Delaware hen. There are a whole lot of Splash roosters that won’t give a chick with a spot when crossed with the Delaware. The barring will hold true but you won’t be able to see the spot on the down and you might not be able to see the barring on the adult plumage. It really depends on the other genes.

    So, then, the blue wheaten male over the Delaware would yield 50%blue, 50%black, with the males having the head spot and the females being solid, with the same issue of them perhaps being a little more diluted?luted?

    A blue wheaten male over a Delaware hen will not give you chicks where you can see the spot at all. What you will get are adult chickens where they have a 50-50 chance of having either black or blue pattern colors, the tail pretty much for sure but possibly some other pattern feathers.

    What I’d expect you to get with the blue wheaten male over a Delaware hen is red sex links. I’m pretty sure the male is pure for gold and I know the Delaware carries silver. The male chicks will have yellow down and the adult plumage will show barring but you will not be able to see the spot on the chick. The female chicks will be red. The barring will hold true with the males barred and the females not barred but you will not see the spot.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2013
  8. Daloorashens

    Daloorashens Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Sorry if that previous post was confusing... I was referring to using either the splash wheaten or blue wheaten ameracauna cockerels I talked about in one of my first posts.. I have a blue copper marans roo (now covering the FBCM pullets) and then the ameracauna cockerels, so was curious if the ameracaunas would work for sex links, even though they are blue and splash wheaten rather than wheaten.

    It also makes sense that the blue gene may or not be present for it to be able to show up in the chicks.

    Also, that the blue wheaten over the Delaware would make red sex links also makes sense... I guess I'm getting a little confused on how to determine what the result will be (red vs black sex link) because the Delaware can be considered silver or barred.

    Then again, maybe I"m overanalyzing, lol
     
  9. Ridgerunner

    Ridgerunner True BYC Addict

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    I’m probably adding too much in here to confuse you. Part of it too is that I am not real comfortable with the Copper Marans. I have not played with them so don’t have the experience I need to be comfortable. The theory of what happens isn’t all that hard but the practical application of this stuff can get really complicated. The parents have to be pure for the genes that count and some genes you don’t expect can have a big influence on down color. Red and black sex links are all about down color. Adult plumage is really irrelevant if you can’t see it in the down.

    You might want to take a photo of that chick every week or so just to document how the down colors change to the adult plumage. You might find that interesting. I think some things are going to show up in the adult plumage that you would not expect from the down.

    Let me try to start way back at the beginning. Blue is not a sex linked gene. It has nothing to do with sex links. Blue will not automatically make a spot appear that would not normally appear if the chick had no blue. The blue is not what is making a spot appear on your cross.

    There are a whole lot of genes that affect down color and pattern. Just because the father is pure for gold and the hen has silver does not mean you can make a sex link. The down color and pattern has to be such that you can actually see the difference in the silver and gold in the chicks.

    If the rooster is not barred and the hen is barred, the male offspring will always have barring and the female offspring will not. But that does not always show in the plumage because something else may mask the barring, but if there are pattern or colored feathers, it usually shows up. And there are a lot of genes affecting the color and pattern of the chick’s down. There are plenty of cases where the spot is masked by the other down in the head area.

    I don’t know what is going on with your Blue Copper Marans rooster and Delaware hen to give you the solid colored chick like that you show in the photo. I have never played with black or blue copper Marans so I don’t know what to expect from their chicks. I’ll assume that your Blue Copper Marans and Delaware are pure for the genes they are supposed to have. That doesn’t always happen so it’s a bit risky basing too much on the photo of one chick but you have to start somewhere. Looking at photos of Blue and Black Copper Marans chicks I could see that maybe that could happen.


    Your Blue CM rooster over Black CM hens will not give you sex links. You should have a 50-50 chance of blue or black CM chicks, but I often hatch out maybe 15 to 20 chicks at a time and often get 2 to 1 or even 3 to 1 ratios of things that should be 50-50. Odds are just odds that apply to each individual chick.

    If your Ameraucanas are true Ameraucanas and not the EE’s you get from the hatcheries, you should get red sex links with your Delawares. You probably will anyway but hatchery EE’s are mixes and you can’t always be sure with mixes. The Blue won’t show up at all on the down. It will show up on the feathers that would normally be black when they feather out.
     
  10. nicalandia

    nicalandia Overrun With Chickens

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    Quote:
    No. Delawares are not based on Extended Black(E) or Birchen(ER) like most other self Black/blue/chocolate/lavender/Splash/Dun/Beige birds like black australorps or chocolate orpingtons. Delawares are infact Wheaten at the e locus, this is their genotype eWh/eWh(wheaten) S/S(Sex linked Silver) Co/Co(Columbian Restricted therefor with a Columbian phenotype) B/B(Sex linkend Barring)... they are perfect to use(Females) as sexlinks when mated to a self black/blue/chocolate/Lavender rooster as this will give you all black female chicks and black males with a headspot


    you cant use any type of "Wheaten" males over Delawares and expect black/blue chicks. why? because none of them carry the Extended Black or Birchen e allele, infact both of this breeds(Blue Wheaten and Delawares) are Wheaten at the e locus(eWh/eWh) and they are impossible to sex at hatch because of the wheaten chicks look yellow to began with..

    wheaten maran chicks. Source https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...en-marans-discussion-thread/1570#post_7641659


    Delawere Chicks. Source https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/354438/light-sussex-and-delaware-chicks-look-alike#post_4298828

    [​IMG]




    as you can see it will be impossible to sex them if you use a wheaten or blue wheaten roo over delaware hens. your best bet is to use your Black or blue/splash copper maran rooster(they are birchen ER at the e locus and hatch black/blue) over delaware hens and just wait for the sex links to hatch out...[​IMG]

    here is a pic of a few black copper marans(Birchen at the E locus and therefore make a perfect sex link breed when breed to barred females like delawares) source https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/black-copper-marans-french-chicks-pictures

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013

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