Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[Shadrach]

they can synthesize a lot of what they need, converting carbs to proteins and vice versa; it is only the essential amino acids that they need to consume because they can't manufacture them from other foodstuffs that they eat. There's also the issue of bioavailability.

There's quite a good overview - for human nutrition - here
https://www.msdmanuals.com/home/dis...f-nutrition/carbohydrates,-proteins,-and-fats
from which I excerpt this tidbit
"The percentage of protein the body can use to synthesize essential amino acids varies from protein to protein. The body can use 100% of the protein in egg and a high percentage of the proteins in milk and meats. The body can use a little less than half of the protein in most vegetables and cereals.

The body needs protein to maintain and replace tissues and to function and grow. Protein is not usually used for energy. However, if the body is not getting enough calories from other nutrients or from the fat stored in the body, protein is broken down into ketone bodies to be used for energy. If more protein is consumed than is needed, the body breaks the protein down and stores its components as fat.

The body contains large amounts of protein. Protein, the main building block in the body, is the primary component of most cells. For example, muscle, connective tissues, and skin are all built of protein."

Yes. I was trying to keep things very simple. Your post above backs up my point about the necessity of high protein feeds. Gett a decent methionine content and the chicken should be able to take care of the other essential amino acids from a reasonably varied diet.

 

[Perris]

Hmmm, American this and that make a lot of recommendations that have later been proven to be misleading.
For the commercial industry the higher protein content feed is to promote the fastest growth rate. Sometimes slow and steady gives better results.

this is true. But the Livestock Conservancy came into existence to try to preserve slow-growing heritage breeds. Naturally they overreach with their claims on the label heritage, but their definition shows they're not promoting high protein feed in order to grow the birds fast, quite the opposite in fact:

"Definition:

Heritage Chicken must adhere to all the following:

1. APA Standard Breed
   Heritage Chicken must be from parent and grandparent stock of breeds recognized by the American Poultry Association (APA) prior to the mid-20th century; whose genetic line can be traced back multiple generations; and with traits that meet the APA Standard of Perfection guidelines for the breed. Heritage Chicken must be produced and sired by an APA Standard breed. Heritage eggs must be laid by an APA Standard breed.
2. Naturally mating
   Heritage Chicken must be reproduced and genetically maintained through natural mating. Chickens marketed as Heritage must be the result of naturally mating pairs of both grandparent and parent stock.
3. Long, productive outdoor lifespan
   Heritage Chicken must have the genetic ability to live a long, vigorous life and thrive in the rigors of pasture-based, outdoor production systems. Breeding hens should be productive for 5-7 years and roosters for 3-5 years.
4. Slow growth rate
   Heritage Chicken must have a moderate to slow rate of growth, reaching appropriate market weight for the breed in no less than 16 weeks. This gives the chicken time to develop strong skeletal structure and healthy organs prior to building muscle mass."

https://livestockconservancy.org/heritage-chicken-definition/

 

[ManueB]

Here as well most layer feed is around 16% and what is called all flock is around 14.
The first layer feed I bought was the highest % of protein i’ve seen at 17.8%. It was made by the battery where I got my ex-batts, which incorporated it's own fields and mill, and mostly sold to commercial operations.

Methionine and lysine are also always below the levels I read about on BYC.

 

[no fly zone]

Current pic of Nugget, one of Skeksis and Mr. Bumble's growing number of grandchildren.

 

[Shadrach]

This is Carbon.

She's a non hatchery Crested Cream Legbar.
She's between 6 and eight years old; probably 7 plus.
Until 10 weeks ago she was laying decent sized eggs with strong shells.
The last 3 eggs she laid had that more torpedo shape than her usual more rounded shape I associate with a hen about to stop laying, often seen in more elderly hens.

She's moulting and has been since about 7 weeks ago. She's having a patchy moult where some areas have discarded the old feathers and new ones have grown in while other areas have not shown any signs of feather loss.

She has been fed layers pellets 16% protein, 4% calcium for the past couple of years and since the arrival of the chicks I've offered Carbon the same brand layers feed, but as crumble. I've tried with water as a mash and dry. She'll eat both and has some of the chick feed at times which I try to discourage.
She also ranges on a one acre allotment that she lives on for between 2 and 6 hours a day.
She does get fed fish, meat and whole grains three or four times a week and has for the past 2 years.

She's been a feather plucker and eater since I've known her, mostly the Ex Battery hens that used to live with her.
She has a lovely rooster called Henry who doesn't harrass her and doesn't try to mate her unless she's laying eggs.

A big change in her living circumstances came almost 11 weeks ago when the only other hen, who she gets on with well, hatched two chicks. I think she found this quite stressfull.

She is mite and lice free, is mostly active and goes out foraging with the others.
For the past 6 to 7 weeks she been producing droppings like this.
She also has slow crop, quite common with moulting hens, which I have managed with varying degrees of success to the point that her droppings become more solid only to return to the runny slush you can see in the pictures.

There have been no signs of worm segments or blood in her droppings.
She's a messy eater and throws any food out of bowls onto the ground and then eats it.

She's losing weight and her balance is effected. It's most noticable if she turns suddenly or tries to reach to groom past her preen gland, belly and back.

I can deal with crop problems but this runny slush has me worried. The thing that concerns me most is the liquid isn't white; it's mostly water as it went in the other end. To me this suggests kidney problems.

I have Coxoid and Flubendazole on hand. However, I'm reluctant to give either while a chicken is moulting. Both can be quite hard on the system and in Carbon's weakened state, even more so.
What would you do @TwoCrows @azygous ?

 

[azygous]

My flock is molting heavily. There have been a couple, one hen in particular, that it has hit hard. Severely curtailed appetites and the appearance of poop similar to Carbon's. Behavior has been lethargic. I treated both with amoxicillin on the chance the poop indicated bacterial infection due to molt-compromised immune systems. There has been improvement. I suggest you give an antibiotic a try.

 

[TwoCrows]

This is Carbon.
View attachment 3672955

She's a non hatchery Crested Cream Legbar.
She's between 6 and eight years old; probably 7 plus.
Until 10 weeks ago she was laying decent sized eggs with strong shells.
The last 3 eggs she laid had that more torpedo shape than her usual more rounded shape I associate with a hen about to stop laying, often seen in more elderly hens.
View attachment 3672946

She's moulting and has been since about 7 weeks ago. She's having a patchy moult where some areas have discarded the old feathers and new ones have grown in while other areas have not shown any signs of feather loss.
View attachment 3672950View attachment 3672948

She has been fed layers pellets 16% protein, 4% calcium for the past couple of years and since the arrival of the chicks I've offered Carbon the same brand layers feed, but as crumble. I've tried with water as a mash and dry. She'll eat both and has some of the chick feed at times which I try to discourage.
She also ranges on a one acre allotment that she lives on for between 2 and 6 hours a day.
She does get fed fish, meat and whole grains three or four times a week and has for the past 2 years.
View attachment 3672956View attachment 3672957View attachment 3672953

She's been a feather plucker and eater since I've known her, mostly the Ex Battery hens that used to live with her.
She has a lovely rooster called Henry who doesn't harrass her and doesn't try to mate her unless she's laying eggs.

A big change in her living circumstances came almost 11 weeks ago when the only other hen, who she gets on with well, hatched two chicks. I think she found this quite stressfull.

She is mite and lice free, is mostly active and goes out foraging with the others.
For the past 6 to 7 weeks she been producing droppings like this.
She also has slow crop, quite common with moulting hens, which I have managed with varying degrees of success to the point that her droppings become more solid only to return to the runny slush you can see in the pictures.
View attachment 3672954View attachment 3672952View attachment 3672951View attachment 3672947View attachment 3672945

There have been no signs of worm segments or blood in her droppings.
She's a messy eater and throws any food out of bowls onto the ground and then eats it.

She's losing weight and her balance is effected. It's most noticable if she turns suddenly or tries to reach to groom past her preen gland, belly and back.

I can deal with crop problems but this runny slush has me worried. The thing that concerns me most is the liquid isn't white; it's mostly water as it went in the other end. To me this suggests kidney problems.

I have Coxoid and Flubendazole on hand. However, I'm reluctant to give either while a chicken is moulting. Both can be quite hard on the system and in Carbon's weakened state, even more so.
What would you do @TwoCrows @azygous ?

Sorry your girl is struggling. This doesn't look like kidney or liver disfunction to me, or a yeast infection, it looks like possiblely an intestinal infection. I agree with @azygous a round of Amoxicillin should help.

 

[Shadrach]

My flock is molting heavily. There have been a couple, one hen in particular, that it has hit hard. Severely curtailed appetites and the appearance of poop similar to Carbon's. Behavior has been lethargic. I treated both with amoxicillin on the chance the poop indicated bacterial infection due to molt-compromised immune systems. There has been improvement. I suggest you give an antibiotic a try.

Thank you for responding.

 

[Shadrach]

Sorry your girl is struggling. This doesn't look like kidney or liver disfunction to me, or a yeast infection, it looks like possiblely an intestinal infection. I agree with @azygous a round of Amoxicillin should help.

Thank you for responding.

 

[no fly zone]

Thank you for responding.

Hope Carbon starts feeling better soon.