Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

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Perris said:
I agree. Especially about things that are difficult to measure (or have yet to be identified and / or measured) being overlooked.

Just because we don't have an (accurate or inaccurate - another elephant in the room) nutrient profile for some natural foodstuff, it does not follow that it does not play an important role in the diet. Some contributors' dismissals of such food items, simply because they're variable or they don't fit in a formula, don't help anyone. A recent discussion on pasture/ grass comes to mind. I note the authors of that paper were surprised by how high the protein levels were for some of the herbage. But you have observed before that our chickens know there's something in grass that is good for them, and a spell of grazing after meals occurs like clockwork here. It's not just about the insect or animal protein to be found in pasture; they're eating blades of grass and they are selective about precisely which blades they want.

I imagine you have to pay quite a premium for spelt, if bags of flour in the supermarket are anything to go by. My birds are fine on ordinary feed wheat, which is relatively cheap. (For those not au fait with these labels, 'feed wheat' is whole wheat specifically grown as animal feed, or wheat that was intended for human consumption but was downgraded to animal feed around harvest for quality reasons; 'wheat feed' is a by-product of the milling industry, 'waste' channelled into animal feed, and consists of the part of the grain not wanted for human consumption; I don't use that.)
Click to expand...
Good quality spelt is expensive; any spelt is expensive come to that.:lol: I just couldn't be doing with messing about trying to get them to eat peas.
 
Shadrach said:
I just couldn't be doing with messing about trying to get them to eat peas.
Click to expand...
I quite understand. It was a long road here, though we got there eventually; they do watch each other, and if one will eat them, sooner or later others will follow, until finally most or all are eating them. Maybe it takes a while for them to acquire the taste for them, or to develop an appropriate microbiome to digest them properly. The time it took for the chickens' gizzard and metabolism to adjust to a real food diet - 6 weeks plus - and therefore the inadequacy of 3 week trials was, I thought, another very good point in that paper you cited. Anyway, it's taken years to get the peas sorted here, and there are rarely any left nowadays; since I sourced a mix with green, blue, white and yellow but without maples, we turned the corner - and now even the maples are being eaten when they are back on the menu as part of the mix, as currently.
 
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Weather forecast Jocelyn in NW Eu.
 
I translated the pdf about oldest chickens with Open AI:
https://www.levendehave.nl/sites/default/files/bestanden/Onderzoek Hoe oud wordt een kip.pdf

remarcable: The old chickens often don't get commercial feed other than grains.


Text: Monique Bestman
And the oldest is...
Research on the age of chickens conducted by the Livestock Study
According to a survey conducted through the Livestock Study website, it appears that chickens can live to be quite old. One of the survey participants shares that her oldest chicken is an 18-year-old hen. This 'mixed breed' is thus the oldest among all the chickens enrolled in the study.

In my role as a researcher at the Louis Bolk Institute, I mostly deal with laying hens from poultry farms. They leave the farm before they are one and a half years old and are then referred to as 'old hens,' mainly because they lay fewer and lower-quality eggs. But how old can a chicken really get, I wondered for a long time. I had once read about a hobby chicken that lived to be 16 years old, but how exceptional is that? And does the chicken's breed matter? Do some breeds live longer than others? And how old can laying hens really get?

TOP 3:
Mixed breed
18-year-old hen
'In the last few weeks, she hasn't been feeling well,' according to her owner. Along with more than forty other chickens, she roams freely in the woods, meadow, and garden. In addition to layer pellets, mixed grains, and bread, she can forage unlimited greens, worms, and insects.

Mixed breed hen of 16 years
'She was still very lively. She just didn't lay eggs anymore.' The information about her living conditions is not further filled in, so we don't know.

Antwerp bearded bantam hen of 16 years
'She has a pale comb, and she laid her last egg at 9 years old.' With two other chickens, she has unrestricted space (2000m2). They live on a grain mixture and whatever they can forage together
.
Who participated?
Visitors to the Livestock Study website, especially hobby poultry keepers, participated in a survey. They could indicate the age of their oldest chicken. They were also asked about the breed, the size of the flock they were kept in, the amount of space they had, and what they were fed.
A total of 112 chickens were registered for the study. Of the 109 submissions, the information proved to be usable. We apologize for the error in the survey form that stated it was wrong. If there is indeed a 36-year-old chicken, the owner should come forward because we need to correct that. This chicken will then receive an honorable mention on the website and in the magazine.

Tables
In Table 1, the submissions are categorized by age groups. The age category 6-10 years is the most represented, accounting for 51% of the chickens, but there are still many chickens in the 11-15 years category, 26%. I have the impression that some of the reported chickens are still alive. So, they might become even older than the category they are currently placed in. According to the Guinness World Records, there was a 22-year-old chicken in North America named Muffy in 2011.
Table 2 shows, for the breeds with the most submissions, the ages those breeds reached. The oldest chickens are all mixed-breed chickens. Ten to thirteen years seems achievable for most breeds. Laying hens, bred for high egg production, appear to live less long.

Oldest rooster
Most submissions are hens that are 1-18 years old, but there are also 8 roosters 'submitted,' with an age of 4-12 years. Do roosters live less long than hens, or does it just seem that way because there are far fewer roosters mentioned?
Some submitters mentioned signs of aging in their one-year-old chickens. To distinguish signs of aging from signs of illness, I have considered only the symptoms in the 36 chickens aged 10 and older as signs of aging. Table 3 shows which signs of aging were mentioned and how often.

However, there are also very lively older hens. A 14-year-old mixed-breed hen is still in charge of the seven other chickens. Also, an 11-year-old Drentse hoen is still in charge, despite getting 'slower and going to roost earlier.' An 11-year-old Welsumer is not only still in charge but also raised a chick. The 16-year-old mixed-breed hen from the top 5 oldest chickens was described as 'very lively.' The signs of aging mentioned in roosters aged ten and older include crowing and mating less, more lying down, no longer being in charge, and being somewhat less adventurous.

Egg laying
Among the signs of aging, it was mentioned that fewer or no eggs were laid, but until what age does a hen lay eggs? The oldest hen reported to still lay eggs was a Dutch bearded crested hen. She is now 13 but laid eggs until last year. From around the age of 8, hens lay fewer or no eggs, as indicated by most submissions that mention something about eggs. One laying hen at 9 years 'occasionally lays an egg, although she can no longer get on the nest.'

Although it has nothing to do with age, we were also curious about how many chickens people have. In Table 4, the submissions are categorized by the number of chickens in the flock. Twelve flocks were kept in a run of a maximum of 10m2, with the largest occupancy being 23 Seramas on 5 m2. Eight flocks were kept in a run of 11-20 m2, with the largest occupancy being 12 animals on 20 m2. Forty-one flocks were kept in runs of 21 to 400 m2. Twenty-nine flocks had unrestricted space, more than 400 m2.
Finally, we asked what the chickens are fed. Almost all flocks eat mixed grain (82 out of 109), followed by layer meal or pellets (73 flocks), raw vegetables, fruit, and garden waste (62 flocks), self-foraged insects, worms, and greens (59 flocks), and cooked leftovers (38 flocks). Finally, there were chickens that received compost, boiled egg, ready-made meals, mealworms, yogurt, mice, or cake.

The tables were impossible to put into text in a proper way. Look in the pdf for the lay out.
.
Table 1: Number of chickens per age category
Age in years
0-5 6-10 11-15 >15 Total

Table 2: Age per breed
Breed
Mixed breed
Wyandotte
Wyandotte bantam
Laying hen North Holland blue Cochin bantam
Australorp
Number of animals with this age
22 (20%) 56 (51%)
28 (26%)
3 (3%)
109 (100%)
----
Total 63

Table 3: Signs of aging in hens
Number Age of animals
of this
breed
28 3-18
8 3-11
7 6 -13
7 1-9
5 4-10
4 4.5-10 4 7-10
Sign of aging
No or fewer eggs laid
Difficulty walking/jumping
Poorer feather condition
More tired and/or more sleeping
Slower
Poor eyesight
Comb color fades
More solitary
Lower in the pecking order
More susceptible to bumblefoot, rough feet, and lice

Table 4: Number of chickens in the submissions
How often mentioned
17 7 4 3 2 2 2 2 1 3

Number of chickens
1-5
6 -10
11-20
21-50
>50
Unknown
Total
Number of submissions
34 (31%)
31 (28%)
26 (24%)
13 (12%)
1 (1%)
4 (4%)
109 (100%)

Livestock Study & Everything about chickens magazine for hobby animal keepers.
 
Last edited:
BDutch said:
I translated the pdf about oldest chickens with Open AI:
https://www.levendehave.nl/sites/default/files/bestanden/Onderzoek Hoe oud wordt een kip.pdf

remarcable: The old chickens often don't get commercial feed other than grains.


Text: Monique Bestman
And the oldest is...
Research on the age of chickens conducted by the Livestock Study
According to a survey conducted through the Livestock Study website, it appears that chickens can live to be quite old. One of the survey participants shares that her oldest chicken is an 18-year-old hen. This 'mixed breed' is thus the oldest among all the chickens enrolled in the study.

In my role as a researcher at the Louis Bolk Institute, I mostly deal with laying hens from poultry farms. They leave the farm before they are one and a half years old and are then referred to as 'old hens,' mainly because they lay fewer and lower-quality eggs. But how old can a chicken really get, I wondered for a long time. I had once read about a hobby chicken that lived to be 16 years old, but how exceptional is that? And does the chicken's breed matter? Do some breeds live longer than others? And how old can laying hens really get?

TOP 3:
Mixed breed
18-year-old hen
'In the last few weeks, she hasn't been feeling well,' according to her owner. Along with more than forty other chickens, she roams freely in the woods, meadow, and garden. In addition to layer pellets, mixed grains, and bread, she can forage unlimited greens, worms, and insects.

Mixed breed hen of 16 years
'She was still very lively. She just didn't lay eggs anymore.' The information about her living conditions is not further filled in, so we don't know.

Antwerp bearded bantam hen of 16 years
'She has a pale comb, and she laid her last egg at 9 years old.' With two other chickens, she has unrestricted space (2000m2). They live on a grain mixture and whatever they can forage together
.
Who participated?
Visitors to the Livestock Study website, especially hobby poultry keepers, participated in a survey. They could indicate the age of their oldest chicken. They were also asked about the breed, the size of the flock they were kept in, the amount of space they had, and what they were fed.
A total of 112 chickens were registered for the study. Of the 109 submissions, the information proved to be usable. We apologize for the error in the survey form that stated it was wrong. If there is indeed a 36-year-old chicken, the owner should come forward because we need to correct that. This chicken will then receive an honorable mention on the website and in the magazine.

Tables
In Table 1, the submissions are categorized by age groups. The age category 6-10 years is the most represented, accounting for 51% of the chickens, but there are still many chickens in the 11-15 years category, 26%. I have the impression that some of the reported chickens are still alive. So, they might become even older than the category they are currently placed in. According to the Guinness World Records, there was a 22-year-old chicken in North America named Muffy in 2011.
Table 2 shows, for the breeds with the most submissions, the ages those breeds reached. The oldest chickens are all mixed-breed chickens. Ten to thirteen years seems achievable for most breeds. Laying hens, bred for high egg production, appear to live less long.

Oldest rooster
Most submissions are hens that are 1-18 years old, but there are also 8 roosters 'submitted,' with an age of 4-12 years. Do roosters live less long than hens, or does it just seem that way because there are far fewer roosters mentioned?
Some submitters mentioned signs of aging in their one-year-old chickens. To distinguish signs of aging from signs of illness, I have considered only the symptoms in the 36 chickens aged 10 and older as signs of aging. Table 3 shows which signs of aging were mentioned and how often.

However, there are also very lively older hens. A 14-year-old mixed-breed hen is still in charge of the seven other chickens. Also, an 11-year-old Drentse hoen is still in charge, despite getting 'slower and going to roost earlier.' An 11-year-old Welsumer is not only still in charge but also raised a chick. The 16-year-old mixed-breed hen from the top 5 oldest chickens was described as 'very lively.' The signs of aging mentioned in roosters aged ten and older include crowing and mating less, more lying down, no longer being in charge, and being somewhat less adventurous.

Egg laying
Among the signs of aging, it was mentioned that fewer or no eggs were laid, but until what age does a hen lay eggs? The oldest hen reported to still lay eggs was a Dutch bearded crested hen. She is now 13 but laid eggs until last year. From around the age of 8, hens lay fewer or no eggs, as indicated by most submissions that mention something about eggs. One laying hen at 9 years 'occasionally lays an egg, although she can no longer get on the nest.'

Although it has nothing to do with age, we were also curious about how many chickens people have. In Table 4, the submissions are categorized by the number of chickens in the flock. Twelve flocks were kept in a run of a maximum of 10m2, with the largest occupancy being 23 Seramas on 5 m2. Eight flocks were kept in a run of 11-20 m2, with the largest occupancy being 12 animals on 20 m2. Forty-one flocks were kept in runs of 21 to 400 m2. Twenty-nine flocks had unrestricted space, more than 400 m2.
Finally, we asked what the chickens are fed. Almost all flocks eat mixed grain (82 out of 109), followed by layer meal or pellets (73 flocks), raw vegetables, fruit, and garden waste (62 flocks), self-foraged insects, worms, and greens (59 flocks), and cooked leftovers (38 flocks). Finally, there were chickens that received compost, boiled egg, ready-made meals, mealworms, yogurt, mice, or cake.

The tables were impossible to put into text in a proper way. Look in the pdf for the lay out.
.
Table 1: Number of chickens per age category
Age in years
0-5 6-10 11-15 >15 Total

Table 2: Age per breed
Breed
Mixed breed
Wyandotte
Wyandotte bantam
Laying hen North Holland blue Cochin bantam
Australorp
Number of animals with this age
22 (20%) 56 (51%)
28 (26%)
3 (3%)
109 (100%)
----
Total 63

Table 3: Signs of aging in hens
Number Age of animals
of this
breed
28 3-18
8 3-11
7 6 -13
7 1-9
5 4-10
4 4.5-10 4 7-10
Sign of aging
No or fewer eggs laid
Difficulty walking/jumping
Poorer feather condition
More tired and/or more sleeping
Slower
Poor eyesight
Comb color fades
More solitary
Lower in the pecking order
More susceptible to bumblefoot, rough feet, and lice

Table 4: Number of chickens in the submissions
How often mentioned
17 7 4 3 2 2 2 2 1 3

Number of chickens
1-5
6 -10
11-20
21-50
>50
Unknown
Total
Number of submissions
34 (31%)
31 (28%)
26 (24%)
13 (12%)
1 (1%)
4 (4%)
109 (100%)

Livestock Study & Everything about chickens magazine for hobby animal keepers.
Click to expand...
Thanks for translating this. Enjoyed reading it. Mice and cake? 36 years old!?
 
Shadrach said:
You may have seen this @Perris. I've lost track of the articles cited in the feed debates. The article is available as PDF and download. It's not long or that complicated and relatively recent. It's well worth reading.
The article concludes that high production hens fared equally well after a period of adjustment to a wheat and forage diet compared to the groups fed layers pellets.
A few points stood out for me.
The wheat quality is average and no account is taken of what the hens have foraged below the ground; something that difficult to measure and something that usually gets overlooked in these debates.

Supply a higher quality wheat such as I use in my feed mix (spelt at 17% protein) and a variety of seeds and some forage and the high production layers need commercial feed arguement looks very unconvincing.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scien...?ref=pdf_download&fr=RR-2&rr=849f5e8d1c8b067e
Click to expand...
This is very interesting & a very helpful resource! I have been keeping a very close eye on one hen in particular the last few days and have noticed she will only eat the grains and seeds & forage. I had her separated from the flock and gave her the pellets I always feed the flock. She didn't touch them and actually started to make whining sounds. I put her on the grass while I went to get some crumble. She ate the gras like she was starving. I brought her back in after a while and gave her the crumble. She wouldn't touch it. I put down some wheat, barley & oats. She again scarfed it down like she hadn't eaten in days. I have been wortied since observing her, if giving her a diet of whole grains, seeds and forage will suffice, based on the hypothesis that they need the commercial feed.
 

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