Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[fluffycrow]

The message if a predator gets into the coop and run one is likely to lose a lot of birds in one go rather than one at a time when ranging isn't a message most want to hear.

Oh i agree. But sweeping it under the rug doesn't make it go away. Not to mention, birds that have been confined all their lives act a lot like adolescents, not knowing how to save themselves. My main question is, how far are we willing to go, making their lives less enjoyable, under the guise of keeping them "safe". When is enough, enough?

 

[MrsNorthie]

How many times I have heard the question "How long do you plan on steeping this tea?!" "Til the spoon stands up in it's own" is my usual response.

Exactly! I want the spoon standing on it's own and spinning around the mug from all the caffeine.

 

[Shadrach]

You absolutley must have at least ten hens per rooster.
There is no way you can keep three roosters.

Once he's knocked you down stay down until he loses interest.

 

[Shadrach]

And last for tonight.

 

[16 and me]

The message if a predator gets into the coop and run one is likely to lose a lot of birds in one go rather than one at a time when ranging isn't a message most want to hear.

I have lost 4 hens to dog that got into the pen & coop. A year prior the birds were free ranging, and no losses when a dog went after them.
If you count the 9 cockerels culled - I am the biggest factor in loss of life in my flock

 

[16 and me]

Oh i agree. But sweeping it under the rug doesn't make it go away. Not to mention, birds that have been confined all their lives act a lot like adolescents, not knowing how to save themselves. My main question is, how far are we willing to go, making their lives less enjoyable, under the guise of keeping them "safe". When is enough, enough?

Sorry fluffycrow, but have you seen the lengths the world has gone to in regards to keeping safe the last few years? I'd rather not know the answer to that question.

 

[Perris]

The point about the variety and relative threat from predators in different places is a very important one. The burden is undoubtedly much higher for some flocks than it is for mine. And we are also lucky to have some crows living nearby, who not only send out the alarm when the goshawks, buzzards, kites, and whatnot are about, but better, mob them and drive them away, to the benefit of all potential prey species in the vicinity. My roos do the majority of the watching and warning for terrestrial predators, where dogs have been as bad as foxes here.

On predation, this is a useful study from the Netherlands, 'Predation in Organic and Free-Range Egg Production'
https://www.mdpi.com/2076-2615/10/2/177

It was particularly focussed on predation from the air. Conclusion: "Both northern goshawks (Accipiter gentilis) and common buzzards (Buteo buteo) killed laying hens. Common buzzards were also observed to scavenge, after having chased away the northern goshawk, who had killed the particular hen. Hens that were attacked, did not show symptoms of disease or weakness prior to the attack. Moreover, in most cases, they tried to escape from their attacker. There were no reasons to assume that predated hens were in poorer health than non-predated hens. Predation was estimated to have been the cause of, on average, one third of the mortality in the organic/free-range flocks that were included in our survey; total mortality was reported to be 12.2%, of which 3.7% was estimated to be due to predators."

Note that mortality from other causes was twice as high as mortality from predation. Those other causes were almost entirely disease. Predation was the assumed cause when hens were missing from the tally of hens at slaughter at the end of their laying career compared with the number of pullets received onto the farm at the start of their laying career; relatively few of these losses were actually witnessed. On that, one should also note the observation that sometimes other hens predated an injured one.

This was a study of commercial flocks, usually consisting of masses of young birds raised together in hatcheries and sometimes released onto open ground (I hesitate to say 'field') with no cover. Some ranges were described as having trees, but the ones in the photos are useless as cover. Figure 1 shows a fence clearly preventing these birds getting to the cover they (and we, thanks to the photo) can see and instinctively seek out when the goshawk attacks. The Dutch farmers may be well intentioned and some young trees are better than no cover at all, but for anyone thinking about free ranging, this is more what wooded range should look like: https://agriorbit.com/certified-organic-pasture-based-poultry-production/

 

[BDutch]

And last for tonight.
View attachment 3733195

Not correct.
It should have been:
Free diagnose for guys.

 

[Perris]

Interesting what @Perris and @Shadrach say. Not only the above reply but all of it. I agree with most as far as I have experienced. (not so experienced, no roosters, limited free ranging)

Loosing 30% of the chicks is still heartbreaking. I never dared to let my chicks free range with a broody without supervision of a human. Not only the usual predators like foxes, martens and buzzards are a danger for chicks. Also rats, smaller birds of prey and cats who walk around during the day are a danger for banvtam chicks. Next time I have chicks I rather wait to let them free range until the pullets are at least 16 weeks old.

I do agree that free ranging is good for their health. But it comes with a price too.
More of my adult/‘teenage’ chickens died from (suspected) predation than sickness.

Hens /young bantam pullets:
- Sick/ sudden death ii
- Predated ii (buzzard, fox)
- Lost (probably predated) iii

Chicks :
- Sick/sudden death iii (all 6 weeks old chicks I bought)
- Predation ii (rat)
- Lost i

Interesting stats, and your worry prompts me to collect my recent figures for chicks for comparison.

In 2023, there were 2 chick losses out of 11 hatched in 3 different broods. One disappeared without trace and may have been predated or may simply have failed to stay in earshot of the broody and got lost, and the other died by drowning. (And 1 of the 11 lived out 24/7 for the first 6 weeks, after being incubated out too, so was a case of extreme free-ranging). In 2022, of 12 chicks hatched in 3 different broods, all but 1 survived to maturity. That 1 was a purchased hatching egg (the Braekel), and it died of disease. So 0 losses to predators out of 12 that year, and over the 2 years, one case, or less than 5% loss to predation, for chicks free ranging with their broodies from hatch (and even that one was an assumed, not a certain, case of predation).

My broodies normally provide adequate defence for their chicks against predator threats. The nearest neighbour told me her cats killed all chicks hatched by some pheasants in her garden in 2023, so they were definitely a threat to the above-mentioned chicks. In previous years I've seen Janeka chasing off a large raptor - and I even had to rescue a kestrel from Maria - and Maria's not much bigger than a bantam, so not entirely different from your broodies. This was Maria's chicks' would-be predator (put into broody jail to collect itself before I released it; it hasn't been back )

 

[BDutch]

The point about the variety and relative threat from predators in different places is a very important one. The burden is undoubtedly much higher for some flocks than it is for mine. And we are also lucky to have some crows living nearby, who not only send out the alarm when the goshawks, buzzards, kites, and whatnot are about, but better, mob them and drive them away, to the benefit of all potential prey species in the vicinity. My roos do the majority of the watching and warning for terrestrial predators, where dogs have been as bad as foxes here.

On predation, this is a useful study from the Netherlands, 'Predation in Organic and Free-Range Egg Production'
https://www.mdpi.com/2076-2615/10/2/177

It was particularly focussed on predation from the air. Conclusion: "Both northern goshawks (Accipiter gentilis) and common buzzards (Buteo buteo) killed laying hens. Common buzzards were also observed to scavenge, after having chased away the northern goshawk, who had killed the particular hen. Hens that were attacked, did not show symptoms of disease or weakness prior to the attack. Moreover, in most cases, they tried to escape from their attacker. There were no reasons to assume that predated hens were in poorer health than non-predated hens. Predation was estimated to have been the cause of, on average, one third of the mortality in the organic/free-range flocks that were included in our survey; total mortality was reported to be 12.2%, of which 3.7% was estimated to be due to predators."

Note that mortality from other causes was twice as high as mortality from predation. Those other causes were almost entirely disease. Predation was the assumed cause when hens were missing from the tally of hens at slaughter at the end of their laying career compared with the number of pullets received onto the farm at the start of their laying career; relatively few of these losses were actually witnessed. On that, one should also note the observation that sometimes other hens predated an injured one.

This was a study of commercial flocks, usually consisting of masses of young birds raised together in hatcheries and sometimes released onto open ground (I hesitate to say 'field') with no cover. Some ranges were described as having trees, but the ones in the photos are useless as cover. Figure 1 shows a fence clearly preventing these birds getting to the cover they (and we, thanks to the photo) can see and instinctively seek out when the goshawk attacks. The Dutch farmers may be well intentioned and some young trees are better than no cover at all, but for anyone thinking about free ranging, this is more what wooded range should look like: https://agriorbit.com/certified-organic-pasture-based-poultry-production/

Thank you for sharing.
Btw I have been reading about free ranging chickens in combination with fruit trees, trees for biomass and solar panels. These were different articles and no research surveys. The possibility to take cover all seem to help against predation.

Interesting article about chickens, a more natural habitat and trees in Dutch (can be google translated) : https://www.vbne.nl/klimaatslimbosennatuurbeheer/maatregel/bomen-in-kippenuitlopen

Solar panels are restricted to 20% of the surface in organic chickens fields in the Netherlands. But a new law (50%) is on its way. In Germany its sometimes more, it differs for each state. In Dutch: https://www.nieuweoogst.nl/nieuws/2023/04/28/zonnepanelen-boven-vrije-uitloop-leghennen-mogen-straks