Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[Shadrach]

Might some of the sort of behaviour that gets young roos a bad name (during what some of us call the jerk phase in a cockerel's life) otherwise be seen as them practicing and developing the skills they will need to protect the flock?

I don't think so.
I think the majority of fights one sees from hatch to full maturity are soley about competeting with others in that species. The idea that roosters are in any way equipped to fight the majority of predators isn't born out in reality. Most rooster run if they can. Like most creatures, if they are cornered, they will fight to defend themselves.
We, humans, when unarmed and even when we are, don't tend to well against bears, tigers, warthogs and many of the larger hawks and falcons.

A few cockerels I've known have tried to attack possible predators with the unsurprising result of getting killed. Roosters are equipped to fight other roosters much as human males are equipped to fight other human males. It's learning to compete for ones place in the group, access to resources, access to the oposite sex that these play fights are about and it all starts as soon as they hatch.
The real fights are for similar reasons, status essentially.

Occasionally one reads a post about a rooster that has fought and seen off a predator; a couple of videos I've seen were obviously set up.
The only chickens I've ever seen take on a predator and win/survive, at times with very nasty injuries, have been hens with chicks.

But, and this observation generally causes raised eyebrows, the times I have seen a rooster attack a predator (only seen it with hawks) is when the hawk lands on top of a hen and the rooster sees this.
I've seen bits and pieces of a lot of hawk attacks; a lot of other creature attacks as well come to that.
Non broody hens that I've seen that haven't been able to find cover before the hawk is within strike distance, crouch. They freeze on the spot and crouch exactly as they would for a rooster. Do the hens think the hawk is some strange rather large and aggressive rooster? The hens rooster it seems may find the sight of another bird attempting to mate one of his hens the trigget to turn him aggressive towards the hawk.

I love a good rooster but even I can't quite stretch to the idea of rooster chivalry and selfless sacrifice, nor sparing with his brother or sister learning to fight off a fox. When I have rooster dragging a fox/weasel/or even a large rat to me for me to inspect and praise him on his fighting skills I might have another think.

 

[Shadrach]

But when they're on the same side of the fence, these couples all but ignore each other.

There is something about being on the wrong side of the fence...

Those halfhearted wing drops have nothing on the full-on dances and vocals Stilton performs for the hens he roosts with.

The result and maybe the intention of these herding movements to hens and cockerels of another group is to drive them away from; reverse herding.
On the few occasions I've seen the herding fail and the hen get close to the other tribes hens, a hen fight is the usual outcome. I think from the roosters perspective, it's easier to prevent such scraps taking place than if is to break them up.

 

[Vulpes vulpes]

Recent discussions about aggression and hierarchy prompted an idea I would like to explore. Your thoughts sought.

Some bird species are well known for their youngsters going through a phase wherein they practice to develop their motor skills - peregrine falcons, gulls, corvids for example.

Might some of the sort of behaviour that gets young roos a bad name (during what some of us call the jerk phase in a cockerel's life) otherwise be seen as them practicing and developing the skills they will need to protect the flock? Play fighting with each other (when there are more than 1 present) to prepare them for fighting for real when a predator appears? How else could they learn how to fight but with each other? Are we misreading an instinct to protect and defend as aggression?

I've also recently been wondering where chick sparring ends and young adult "aggression" begins, and whether a lot of people's experience with human aggression has something to do with this. I've noticed some contrast with how different people handle aggressive roosters. Some people are afraid of going into the rooster's space, recognizing him as a dangerous animal. Others seem to view his "aggression" as a mild annoyance, going about their daily chores while ignoring the repeated floggings they receive. I'm wondering if the latter case is often sparring behavior, and the handler isn't afraid because it doesn't cause injuries, where in the former case the rooster means it.

Of course, there's other factors at play, like what the keeper is wearing (work pants are more protective than shorts), strength differences between breeds, and the fact that young cockerels lack spurs.

 

[BDutch]

Interesting wat a sort of related animal eat during summer and in winter (on Tenerife) in the wild:

It seems the change in diet is part of the availability and probably what they need in winter vs summer too.

 

[BDutch]

When is the jerk phase considered over?

None of my current boys are even a year old yet and 3 are wonderful and 1 is 20 weeks old and is starting to think he's just amazing lolol (n o t, and no one else thinks he is, either hahahha)

@BDutch I have 52 Chickens, 48 of which are hens, 4 of which are Cockerels. I started with 18 (and no boys for a long time, they were separated and out of eyesight). This summer I had upwards of 90, but I sold a bunch and gave some away.

Do they split into tribes as Shadrach described?

 

[Perris]

Most rooster run if they can. Like most creatures, if they are cornered, they will fight to defend themselves.

I think we need to distinguish between a single rooster and a group of roosters. You seem to be talking about single roosters, as here

a rooster that has fought and seen off a predator

My experience is reality just as much as your experience, and I see roosters run toward a ruckus as well as moving away (in a sort of sideways step, so they can see what's behind as well as where they are going). And with a group of roos what I see is deterrence, they don't actually need to fight because predators are put off by their combined threat.
(eta as bears, tigers, warthogs etc are put off by a lot of people who although unarmed don't run away but stand their ground and make noise. There is safety in numbers, as all flocking animals understand.)

The last terrestrial predator attack here was when I had only 3 roos simultaneously, and 2 out of 3 of them got injured in the process, which I'm guessing was not because they ran away less fast than the hens.

 

[Shadrach]

There is safety in numbers, as all flocking animals understand.)

But chickens aren't flock animals. One doesn't get flocks of chickens in their natural habitat, in the jungle, in evolved populations, one gets distinct groups/tribes. It's the keeping circumstances that humans impose on the chicken that might lead one to believe they exist in flocks in their natural habitat. Of course some will mention the semi feral groups that live in various parts of the world where chicken have escaped/been released where flock behavior has been observed. This is seen because that group, however it came about didn't develop naturally and there may not be another group for hundreds of miles. It's not like that in the jungle.
Others may say the chicken has adapted to behave as a flock. Well from what I have seen they didn't have a lot of choice and when given the choice, as I have observed with the chicken in Catalonia and on my uncles farm, they revert to tribal living.
Groups of roosters is not a natural arrangement. It just doesn't work when one considers over time half the population are going to be male and each of those males is going to want to further their genes.

which I'm guessing was not because they ran away less fast than the hens.

Most rooster I've seen get predated get predated for exactly this reason, they either become the main target because they've been last to head for cover because they taken those precious fractions of a second to warn the tribe before they seek cover.
With hawks etc in particular it's about fractions of a second between surviving or not. It's not about well practiced roosters fighting the hawk off.
The Goshawk may have a horizontal approach speed of just short of 60mph, that about 27 metres per second. A mature hunting practiced hawk often doesn't get seen until it's less than 50 metres away. Mr rooster has got maybe two seconds to identify as an imminent threat, sound the warning call and run for cover. He's not going to manage anything like the speed of the hawk, and if he's done his job properly the hens have perhaps half a second head start. If cover is close, the hens may make it. The rooster however has lost half a second and becomes the new target of the hawk.

 

[Perris]

Groups of roosters is not a natural arrangement.

I am not talking about a rooster flock, I am talking about mine, which is

half the population are going to be male

because they are living as naturally as I can manage. And since I don't force them into separate coops in different areas, my flock is probably more natural than what you did with about the same number of birds in Catalonia, which you divided into 'tribes'.

 

[Shadrach]

Further...
There is so much evidence even from backyard keepers and studies not directly related to studying whether or not chickens are tribal that illustrate the point. Recently the topic of mating arose on another thread and I posted a study that observed that roosters were more tolerant of relatives mating the hens than strangers.
Lots of posts on BYC with pictures what's more of same breeds sticking together. I've posted a few.
Roosters have favourites, most acknowledge that. There's your tribe.

For reasons I've never fully grasped, despite all the evidence to the contrary backyard keepers just don't want to acknowledge that they are keeping a tribal creature in flock conditions.

 

[fuzzi]

Further...
There is so much evidence even from backyard keepers and studies not directly related to studying whether or not chickens are tribal that illustrate the point. Recently the topic of mating arose on another thread and I posted a study that observed that roosters were more tolerant of relatives mating the hens than strangers.

Zaccheus tolerates his son, Jacob, mating with the hens.

Some of the hens disagree.