Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[Shadrach]

- it’s dusk, and they’re starting to put themselves to bed, but I played this on my phone, and they all suddenly stopped and looked. Especially in the high notes (high frequencies). I couldn’t capture the simultaneous looks, bc the music stopped when I switched to Camera.

View attachment 4282931

Did you know that chickens pick up sub bass frequencies from receptors in their legs. Maybe if you went out with a high fidelity music player (20 Hz to 20 kHz) they may start dancing to the bass frequencies.

Oops. I forgot. i have insisted that roosters don't dance.

 

[Mother of Chaos]

Did you know that chickens pick up sub bass frequencies from receptors in their legs. Maybe if you went out with a high fidelity music player (20 Hz to 20 kHz) they may start dancing to the bass frequencies.

Oops. I forgot. i have insisted that roosters don't dance.

I will have to give this a try!

I blew out multiple bass speakers in my car in my younger days…

 

[Mother of Chaos]

(I thought that I posted this earlier, but it seems to have vanished)

Nighty-night:

 

[Shadrach]

one and a half hours today. Mainly dry in the afternoon. Rain moved in as I went home.
The pop door was shut again when I got there, I really don't know what happened this time. The batteries in the controller unit were at replacement level according to the unit yet they were new a few weeks ago. No broken string, nothing wedged in the door channels to prevent the door opening. Was the rat trying to chew the door when it started to open and got trapped or wouldn't stop chewing.
The damage isn't much fortunately and I had spare batteries and once the new batteries were installed and a the settings adjusted the door operated as normal. I've fixed an aluminium vent guard on the front of the door. I forgot to take a picture and maybe that will do until I get the 2mm thick alumimium door cut along with the runner guards.

Being in the coop given their recent level of inactivity isn't likely to be very stressful for them although they want to come out when I get there. They want to drink first usually and this means I should look for a larger water bowl for inside the coop just in case. They've got more than 4sq feet per bird in there.

I'll be going to the field before mid day tomorrow just in case my defenses prove inadequate and Psycho Chew A Coop has done more damage that prevents the door opening.
It's been one of those days.

They came out to drink and eat, foraged a bit in the extended run. Glais went off for a dust bath with Sylph close behind leaving me and Mow enjoying the milder weather.

I took this picture of a flock of jackdaws.

Despite having had this chap and his mates try to raid the chicken feed on a daily basis for over a year I can only identify two with any certainty.

 

[Perris]

When I first read the article Perris linked to I assumed there were other pages which would bear out Perris's view that the 80% sightings of single birds in some way suggests that flocks merge.

The article is pretty sketchy at best. One only needs to read the how the data was collected to appreciate this; 2.5 hours spent counting birds twice a month. Another point one should beat in mind is the article isn't about the jungle fowls social behaviour, it's about what ground conditions (vegetation, trees grasses etc) exist where the jungle fowl were counted.

The table layout is just plain wrong. The is no such thing as a flock containing a single bird. Flock is always more then one. So the sightings of single birds cannot be labeled or considered as a flock.

Nor can one assume that the sightings of single birds meant that bird was not attached to a flock.

I could stand at point on the land in Catalonia and see many sightings of single birds but the majority of such sightings were of birds traveling to and from the flock they lived with, roosters responding to hen calls, hens looking for nest sights, a bird going to a water site; there are many possible explanations for such sightings.

The study doesn't identify different individuals. This is quite understandable given one jungle fowl looks much like another especially from a distance and even more so when one gets a fleeting glimpse. The sightings recorded of single birds could be a few birds seen often, they move about a lot and they're fast. It could at the most unlikely be a different bird each time. Somewhere in between would seem most likely.

The observers had no idea, or at least didn't make note of any where these single birds came from, or where they went to.

Absolutely no inferences about how these birds are arranged in a flock or not can be made from the information in the study.

View attachment 4282957

All the sightings of birds in the first column under the heading flock size can be dismissed when considering flock size, firstly because as mentioned a single bird is never a flock and secondly because there is no data on that bird bar the sighting.

Only 3 sightings of flocks above ten members were recorded they could be eleven birds or twenty five. The most common recorded flock size values are 35 for a pair and 34 for up to five members. The next range could be 6 birds or ten birds.

So, back to the original statement jungle fowl live in small groups in a defined territory. There is no evidence that flocks merge in this study, or any other I've read. There is plenty of evidence that individuals from a flock form new flocks but that is not the same as flocks merging.

I usually look at the cited papers and noticed this study sited a paper I have on file which is quite informative about the difficulties of observing jungle fowl as well as the jungle fowls social behaviour. Interesting that they tracked flocks by the senior males crowing.

Have a read. It's not a bad article. Notice the authors use the word group rather than flock.
https://digitalcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=9843&context=condor

Thanks for linking that paper; very handy to have here.

All fieldwork is difficult and most of the complaints you make apply to both papers of course. Lots of gaps, assumptions, uncertainties. But better than nothing, or 'results' from artificial and manufactured set ups imo. I don't think there's anything to be gained from further nit-picking over terms.

However, I do have to register some disquiet I feel over the Collias' reliance on crowing as identifier and locator. I have lived with all my roos for their entire lives, and while their voices are different, only a couple of them are sufficiently distinct to my ear for me to be able to say with confidence that a given crow was X's. Lulea's is very croaky, Merioneth's is deep (like Glais'), and Hensol's is very squeeky; I know Fforest's but I don't have the words to say how I recognize his crow as his. But if I was behind a screen I couldn't distinguish Killay's from Gwynedd's or Tintern's or Nefyn's or Wig's or Talgarth's. And I hear these every day, and can see the birds a lot of the time.

The Collias' fieldwork methodology starts with "We located jungle fowl by cruising the roads and especially by listening for the dawn crowing. Counts of crowing made throughout the day enabled us to trace the movements of the birds to some degree, as well as to gain some idea of differences in local abundance." Reliance on this method was very heavy. "During the last month of the study we obtained a collecting and banding permit, and managed to net and color-band a dozen jungle fowl. But these birds were not seen again." There were other pitfalls. "We often found it difficult to locate birds and roosts by the dawn crowing because the birds shifted to another roosting spot after we had discovered and disturbed them." So the findings are based on "we located and mapped with aid of a compass all the nearby roosts from the roof of the Dholkhand Forest Rest House by the sound of crowing only, and we did not attempt to approach directly any of these roosts until the last month of the study." And the sample is tiny: "There were four of these nearby roosts, and their distribution as determined by compass triangulation from the forest rest house (dak bungalow) is shown in figure 2. The composition of the four flocks during May or early June in terms of adult males and females, including subgrouping within each, was as follows: NE Flock, IM + lF, 1M; East Flock, 1M + 2 F; South Flock, 1M + 3F, 4M; and SW Flock, 1M + 3F, 3M." So that's 2 flocks of 3, 1 flock of 8 (5 males and 3 females in it btw), and 1 of 7 (4 males and 3 females). By subgroups they seem to mean subordinate adult males in the flock.

Crucial assumptions here: "Since subordinate cocks normally crow much less than does the dominant cock of a flock, most of the crowings recorded are believed to have come from a single bird. Furthermore, subordinate cocks during the breeding season are usually kept at some distance from the hen by the dominant cock. Therefore, if more than one cock in the flock had usually been crowing, the sounds often would have seemed to come from different directions." How far apart is a different direction? "Movements of a flock were determined by estimating the direction and location of a crowing male from a machan in which the observer was hidden. The exact time and approximate location of crowings were then plotted on a map." Hmmm.

Crowing as proxy for identity and location apart, I'm not sure why we are obsessing over flock size when the gender balance of these flocks is what stands out as so at variance with what is considered a normal flock on BYC, to wit 1 male and multiple females. For those interested, Table 1 on p. 365 gives the numbers, with the sex ratios each month April to June as 23:33, 51:25, and 23:32 (total: 102M : 90F).

Also interesting to read that the wing drop was performed after mating: "Perhaps as a result of the extreme wariness of the birds, only two copulations of jungle fowl were seen, one on 14 April at 18:00 as mentioned above, the other on 15 April at about noon (12: 10). In each case there was very little preliminary action apparent, although the hen crouched just before the male mounted. Copulation closely resembled the pattern seen among domestic chickens and took only a moment or two. On dismounting, the jungle cock circled the hen about one-fourth of the way while facing her and at the same time half dropping the outer wing, i.e., the one on the side opposite the hen, in an incipient wing-flutter. The hen meanwhile shook herself just as a domestic hen does after copulation. In the second observed copulation, it was noted that shortly after mating, the cock began to scratch about in the leaf litter and feed for the first time in over 10 minutes, and soon after copulation the hen resumed scratching."

Finally, and also relevant to recent discussions: "We have seen partly grown chicks “play fighting” in the manner familiar in domestic chicks. We have no idea how long Red Jungle Fowl chicks stay with the mother in nature. In captivity the period of association with the mother is at least three months, by which time all the down has disappeared from the body except on the chin and upper throat." Go Paprika!

 

[Perris]

As a follow-up to https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...rescued-chickens-thread.1502267/post-28988173 I just went round doing the same exercise, and I think it shows how transient are the groups spotted yesterday. So about 9am 16 of the flock were in the parrotia persica or the hedge next to it, foraging under it or on the bank. I couldn't get them all in one photo but I can post multiple if anyone wants to see them. What matters is that I was able to identify the members hanging out together in this large group now as Cadle, Fforest, Killay, Llandeilo, Lulea, Maria, Oxwich, Queensferry, Rhondda, Sully, Talgarth, Tintern, Wig, Wrexham, Xmoor and Ystrad. Those birds were distributed between several separate groups yesterday; in particular the youngest 2 were here, and without mum. Meanwhile Betws, Nefyn (who'd been 'babysitting' yesterday) and Paprika were scattered, but within 20' of each other, at the other side of the garden. Venka was still in the coop (not laying, not sleeping, not apparently ill, just old (8) and apparently not keen on the hard frost on the ground this morning). Gwynedd was apparently on his own on the north side of the garden by the stream, but maybe the other 6 I couldn't find were lurking somewhere in his vicinity (Aberglasny, Dyffryn, Hay, Hensol, Merioneth (who'd also been seen babysitting yesterday) and Polka).

And as I type this I see a lot appear to be gathering in the long border, so I'll pop back out with my camera again.

 

[rural mouse]

In reference to the wild flock "count" paper, my biggest take away from it is that chickens do NOT like open fields. They like trees....and lots of them. Small meadows/clearings (from the occasional tree coming down) are acceptable, but even "pastured" chickens are NOT happy chickens. They're scared/nervous birds which isn't conducive for good meat or eggs. And that is the one concrete thing in the study that can be used easily to push for changes in commercial/ semi-commercial/ organic chicken keeping practices.

 

[Shadrach]

Thanks for linking that paper; very handy to have here.

All fieldwork is difficult and most of the complaints you make apply to both papers of course. Lots of gaps, assumptions, uncertainties. But better than nothing, or 'results' from artificial and manufactured set ups imo. I don't think there's anything to be gained from further nit-picking over terms.

However, I do have to register some disquiet I feel over the Collias' reliance on crowing as identifier and locator. I have lived with all my roos for their entire lives, and while their voices are different, only a couple of them are sufficiently distinct to my ear for me to be able to say with confidence that a given crow was X's. Lulea's is very croaky, Merioneth's is deep (like Glais'), and Hensol's is very squeeky; I know Fforest's but I don't have the words to say how I recognize his crow as his. But if I was behind a screen I couldn't distinguish Killay's from Gwynedd's or Tintern's or Nefyn's or Wig's or Talgarth's. And I hear these every day, and can see the birds a lot of the time.

The Collias' fieldwork methodology starts with "We located jungle fowl by cruising the roads and especially by listening for the dawn crowing. Counts of crowing made throughout the day enabled us to trace the movements of the birds to some degree, as well as to gain some idea of differences in local abundance." Reliance on this method was very heavy. "During the last month of the study we obtained a collecting and banding permit, and managed to net and color-band a dozen jungle fowl. But these birds were not seen again." There were other pitfalls. "We often found it difficult to locate birds and roosts by the dawn crowing because the birds shifted to another roosting spot after we had discovered and disturbed them." So the findings are based on "we located and mapped with aid of a compass all the nearby roosts from the roof of the Dholkhand Forest Rest House by the sound of crowing only, and we did not attempt to approach directly any of these roosts until the last month of the study." And the sample is tiny: "There were four of these nearby roosts, and their distribution as determined by compass triangulation from the forest rest house (dak bungalow) is shown in figure 2. The composition of the four flocks during May or early June in terms of adult males and females, including subgrouping within each, was as follows: NE Flock, IM + lF, 1M; East Flock, 1M + 2 F; South Flock, 1M + 3F, 4M; and SW Flock, 1M + 3F, 3M." So that's 2 flocks of 3, 1 flock of 8 (5 males and 3 females in it btw), and 1 of 7 (4 males and 3 females). By subgroups they seem to mean subordinate adult males in the flock.

Crucial assumptions here: "Since subordinate cocks normally crow much less than does the dominant cock of a flock, most of the crowings recorded are believed to have come from a single bird. Furthermore, subordinate cocks during the breeding season are usually kept at some distance from the hen by the dominant cock. Therefore, if more than one cock in the flock had usually been crowing, the sounds often would have seemed to come from different directions." How far apart is a different direction? "Movements of a flock were determined by estimating the direction and location of a crowing male from a machan in which the observer was hidden. The exact time and approximate location of crowings were then plotted on a map." Hmmm.

Crowing as proxy for identity and location apart, I'm not sure why we are obsessing over flock size when the gender balance of these flocks is what stands out as so at variance with what is considered a normal flock on BYC, to wit 1 male and multiple females. For those interested, Table 1 on p. 365 gives the numbers, with the sex ratios each month April to June as 23:33, 51:25, and 23:32 (total: 102M : 90F).

Also interesting to read that the wing drop was performed after mating: "Perhaps as a result of the extreme wariness of the birds, only two copulations of jungle fowl were seen, one on 14 April at 18:00 as mentioned above, the other on 15 April at about noon (12: 10). In each case there was very little preliminary action apparent, although the hen crouched just before the male mounted. Copulation closely resembled the pattern seen among domestic chickens and took only a moment or two. On dismounting, the jungle cock circled the hen about one-fourth of the way while facing her and at the same time half dropping the outer wing, i.e., the one on the side opposite the hen, in an incipient wing-flutter. The hen meanwhile shook herself just as a domestic hen does after copulation. In the second observed copulation, it was noted that shortly after mating, the cock began to scratch about in the leaf litter and feed for the first time in over 10 minutes, and soon after copulation the hen resumed scratching."

Finally, and also relevant to recent discussions: "We have seen partly grown chicks “play fighting” in the manner familiar in domestic chicks. We have no idea how long Red Jungle Fowl chicks stay with the mother in nature. In captivity the period of association with the mother is at least three months, by which time all the down has disappeared from the body except on the chin and upper throat." Go Paprika!

I stopped having much faith in these academic studies on chicken behaviour many years ago.
Many of those who keep chickens here on BYC know more about chickens than the people responsible for the academic papers mainly because they spend more time and have a greater level of interest than the PhD students who carry out the leg work for many of the studies presented by the project professors.

I was interested in the location by crow because I used this in Catalonia to locate the tribes without needing to view the location. No two crows are the same. I found recording the crows of individual birds and putting them through a computer frequency analyzer helpful. I already knew roughly where a tribe was likely to be at a given time of day and a crow from the senior rooster in the tribe who usually had the hens with him reasonably easy to identify. New males especially if there was more than one new addition I found very difficult.

However, the points you make about the study I posted are fair and I agree with you.

What I don't agree with is your view that the words one uses to describe sounds, arrangements etc are unimportant. Taking the egg song again as an example. Calling it an egg song could lead to completely ludicrous explanation I recall reading on the chickens chicks web site that it's a celebration of female fertility, to a call to encourage other hens to lay their eggs at the same site. Call it an escort call and one has at least some idea that there is purpose to the call and if interested in the topic might lead to the observer looking at the result of the call and gaining better knowledge though such observations.

 

[Perris]

the words one uses to describe sounds, arrangements etc are

I think they're very important! Hence what I'm sure some think is pedantry over 'tribe'! And I couldn't agree more on the escort call v egg song: it's a perfect example of how interpretations are coloured and baggage loaded by association with a word. I just thought our discussion of flock v tribe v group v whatever for some birds had become unproductive.

 

[Mother of Chaos]

As a follow-up to https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...rescued-chickens-thread.1502267/post-28988173 I just went round doing the same exercise, and I think it shows how transient are the groups spotted yesterday. So about 9am 16 of the flock were in the parrotia persica or the hedge next to it, foraging under it or on the bank. I couldn't get them all in one photo but I can post multiple if anyone wants to see them. What matters is that I was able to identify the members hanging out together in this large group now as Cadle, Fforest, Killay, Llandeilo, Lulea, Maria, Oxwich, Queensferry, Rhondda, Sully, Talgarth, Tintern, Wig, Wrexham, Xmoor and Ystrad. Those birds were distributed between several separate groups yesterday; in particular the youngest 2 were here, and without mum. Meanwhile Betws, Nefyn (who'd been 'babysitting' yesterday) and Paprika were scattered, but within 20' of each other, at the other side of the garden. Venka was still in the coop (not laying, not sleeping, not apparently ill, just old (8) and apparently not keen on the hard frost on the ground this morning). Gwynedd was apparently on his own on the north side of the garden by the stream, but maybe the other 6 I couldn't find were lurking somewhere in his vicinity (Aberglasny, Dyffryn, Hay, Hensol, Merioneth (who'd also been seen babysitting yesterday) and Polka).

And as I type this I see a lot appear to be gathering in the long border, so I'll pop back out with my camera again.

Does the paper elsewhere note the approximate ages of the birds being counted? In other words, were some young chicks, barely able to be sexed, and some younger pullets and cockerels? If so, perhaps the two larger groups with multiple males included males not yet breeding, and so forth.