Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[Shadrach]

If there were pair bonding then the pair would need to produce two successful offspring. If the norm is a rooster and harem of ten then each hen would need to average 1.1.successful offspring. This would also imply that hen survival is higher overall than rooster survival. Roosters are more likely to be driven away from the flock as they mature. Being driven out of the flock makes any chicken more vulnerable to predation. Also, roosters fighting to the death is a form of predation but fighting is more likely to lead to the looser being driven away from the safety in numbers.

I agree, but jungle fowl and feral and land race tribes are closer to 1:1 pair bonding than the common but completely unatural 10:1 ratio.
A single jungle fowl male may partner with many hens during his life but not at the same time.
Yup, it's a hard staw to pull being a rooster in a feral tribe. You are correct in believing that males are less likely to survive.
Shame it's an even harder straw to pull when humans are in control the the chickens environment and reproduction
This is the comparison I've been making, the differences between the natural arrangement and the completely unatural ratios and conditions we keep groups in captivity.

 

[TropicalChickies]

indeed, but that doesn't stop species multiplying, and there is no reason why the junglefowl population "has to" be "stable" or "remain constant", as per your opening statement.

Nothing in nature happens in a vacuum. Even if the food supply for a species is at a constant, the reduction or increase in an apex predator -- or any predator/prey relationship ANYwhere in the ecosystem is going to have a cascade effect. If the conditions are right, the jungle fowl population could explode in spite of all of these reproductive considerations within the species itself.

Example: when Europeans invaded the "New World" they brought wonderful things like tuberculosis and small pox that, by realistic and scholarly estimates, killed off at least 85% of the native population. At least. Entire settlements of tribes died out or were reduced to small nomadic bands by the spread of disease that hopscotched rapidly throughout the continent. Most native people died of these diseases without ever even encountering a European. Less than a hundred years after contact, European explorers found a land "empty" of people but full of bison, and the skies and trees swarmed with carrier pigeons. Why? Because the apex predator, humans, had been so reduced. But archaeological evidence shows that both the bison population and the carrier pigeon population were not nearly as large before contact.

Any discussion of the potential limits of a species multiplying -- or disappearing -- has to consider the variables playing out in the surrounding ecosystem. And that is a lot of variables.

 

[TropicalChickies]

There is of course a natural limit as to just how long a hen can keep foraging feeding herself and her chicks without dying from malnutrition and exhaustion.
What has happend in my experience is the chicks die rather than the hen. It is an interesting experience to watch which chicks survive and which don't and a hard lesson for those who do not really understand what survival of the fittest means in reality.
I've seen quite a few early hatchers who should in theory be the best equiped, being stronger and more mobile die off and a more timid later hatcher who didn't seem competitive enough to survive and live on to reproduce.

Is it true that hens with more chicks work harder? I don't know. What I've seen is mothers giving up with large clutches much earlier than those with two or three chicks, so that might be the hens best option in such case.

Hmm. Lots of good food for thought here. Need to mull this over and watch my hens with their hatches now. Personally, I don't like the idea of giving them more than 4 eggs to hatch. I gave each of my broodies 4. Even though I will provide food for the chicks, I'd like the hen to be able to rear chicks that all were able to get warm at night under her wings, with no one getting pushed too far to the perimeter. The hen who just hatched 3 of her 4 chicks is a naked neck and the other one still brooding is quite petite, so I think 4 is the absolute maximum they could give equal warmth and bonding to in the nest.

 

[TropicalChickies]

You did not understand. The point was that the population cannot keep expanding indefinitely and cannot keep contracting indefinitely. So, in the mid-term (decades) the AVERAGE hen will only produce one offspring with long term viability. Humans are loth to understand this principle.

One successful offspring during a lifetime is a pretty low bar for something as fecund as a chicken, highlighting the importance of disease and predators in their world.

Well, whoever is "right" or understands the principles, this is quite a rich discussion

 

[Perris]

great lyrics (but the melody's a bit monotone for my taste )

 

[Shadrach]

Hmm. Lots of good food for thought here. Need to mull this over and watch my hens with their hatches now. Personally, I don't like the idea of giving them more than 4 eggs to hatch. I gave each of my broodies 4. Even though I will provide food for the chicks, I'd like the hen to be able to rear chicks that all were able to get warm at night under her wings, with no one getting pushed too far to the perimeter. The hen who just hatched 3 of her 4 chicks is a naked neck and the other one still brooding is quite petite, so I think 4 is the absolute maximum they could give equal warmth and bonding to in the nest.

Four eggs is a good number.
Given the right nesting condtions a small bantam hen can easily hatch 10 to 12 eggs. It's having the right nest conditions.

 

[TropicalChickies]

Four eggs is a good number.
Given the right nesting condtions a small bantam hen can easily hatch 10 to 12 eggs. It's having the right nest conditions.

Yeah, also because I don't eat chicken (I prefer beetle larvae!), I can't have dozens and dozens of chickens multiplying. I also have my sanity and my husband's patience to consider.

 

[Shadrach]

The feral (now landrace) flock I monitor consistently has a sex ratio of 10:1 to 15:1. They abutt adjacent flocks on two sides. I don't often get a chance to watch the abutting flocks but they seem to have a similar ratio. But, there are also a few bachlors living alone in the If there is pair bonding then the pair would need to produce two successful offspring. If there is a rooster and harem of ten then each hen would need to average 1.1.successful offspring. This would also imply that hen survival is higher overall than rooster survival.

Love to see some pictures.
However, the studies I've read on the red and green jungle fowl found 1:1 and 1:3 as normal and the two people I know who work with land race breeds state the same.
With my Uncles free rangers 1:3 was normal.
With the tribes in Catalonia one could see the natural arrangement break down at more than 4:1.
My friend in the next county who has multiple tribes reports 1:3 as most workable.

However, newly established semi feral populations in areas of the UK have a ratio much more similar to the ratios you mention. Is this because there was a massively disproportionate ratio on the chickens escape/release?

 

[Shadrach]

great lyrics (but the melody's a bit monotone for my taste )

Love a bit of Ben Harper. The recording is excellent.

 

[Shadrach]

Right chaps. Rather than sit here writing about chickens I'm off to experience the real thing.
Keep it civil and pay yer feckin taxes!