Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

Yes, but if her statements are from a research, Perris usually puts a link or reference in her post.
I thought this was from personal experience.
Just to be clear, said it was traditional wisdom, which means old poultry handbooks, which are not so easy to find and cite in online versions (and are not normally followed anyway it seems) and that my experience was consistent. Generalizations based on one individual's experience - myself included - are usually not worth much imo.
 
Just to be clear, said it was traditional wisdom, which means old poultry handbooks, which are not so easy to find and cite in online versions (and are not normally followed anyway it seems) and that my experience was consistent. Generalizations based on one individual's experience - myself included - are usually not worth much imo.
I just started reading A Guide to Success With Poultry from 1903. It’s in question and answer format. A little dry so far…but informative. A lot of modern breeds were standardized after this book was written (from what I’ve been reading elsewhere in general poultry guides) but I think it is intended for breeders. I don’t plan on breeding anything in any controlled way I am just curious to see if there were big differences in practice with respect to feeding and disease management.
 
I just started reading A Guide to Success With Poultry from 1903. It’s in question and answer format. A little dry so far…but informative. A lot of modern breeds were standardized after this book was written (from what I’ve been reading elsewhere in general poultry guides) but I think it is intended for breeders. I don’t plan on breeding anything in any controlled way I am just curious to see if there were big differences in practice with respect to feeding and disease management.
I found that sort of resource very useful when I was starting out and knew diddly squat about chickens. Feeding and disease management were completely different from modern industrial practice, I found, and I got a lot of insight into both from handbooks that were written before modern practices came in - not least in showing that all sorts of alternatives are possible and sometimes better (imo). I think my favourite is still Lewis Wright The illustrated book of poultry 1873, with J H Robinson Poultrycraft 1904 second. Who wrote the Guide to success you're reading?
 
Just to be clear, said it was traditional wisdom, which means old poultry handbooks, which are not so easy to find and cite in online versions (and are not normally followed anyway it seems) and that my experience was consistent.
I just started reading A Guide to Success With Poultry from 1903.
If you used old traditional wisdom, its possible it still applies for the very old heritage breeds (laying maybe 60-120 eggs a year, if I remembered right).
It doesn’t apply anymore for most chickens that are kept today.
+
Even the genes of old heritage breeds probably changed over time too. Breeding and selecting, for give or take 50 generations, caused changes. For better looks, to showcase in the competition gatherings/exhibitions. Maybe they even changed their genes to lay earlier because of this ‘national sport’ to exhibit their most beautiful pullets in autumn/early winter. Some breeders may have tried to select for longer laying periods, so they would have more eggs during the winter period. :idunno

Bc of breeding programs in egg laying it was possible to change chickens from 120 to 300 eggs a year within 30 years if I remembered right.

After WW2 they even managed to breed specialists for meat. The chronic obese chickens, growing so fast they can hardly walk when they reach the age of 16 weeks old.

Just saying, information in old chicken books are possible not the best source for general egg laying facts.

An interesting and reliable longread about changes over the years starting at the end of the 19th century: https://www.cbs.nl/-/media/imported/documents/2001/13/index1137.pdf
This article named ‘Golden eggs’ is in Dutch but easy to translate in this modern times. I will translate one part in my next post.
 
I found that sort of resource very useful when I was starting out and knew diddly squat about chickens. Feeding and disease management were completely different from modern industrial practice, I found, and I got a lot of insight into both from handbooks that were written before modern practices came in - not least in showing that all sorts of alternatives are possible and sometimes better (imo). I think my favourite is still Lewis Wright The illustrated book of poultry 1873, with J H Robinson Poultrycraft 1904 second. Who wrote the Guide to success you're reading?
Something I like about very old articles or research papers is that they still explain basic stuff. Some information is now considered wide spread fact that it isn't explained anymore why it happens or how it works. Had a real hard time with an assignment about rat behaviour because of stuff like that, modern stuff is very niche. Which is good when you want to know certain niche stuff but not when you need broader knowledge.
 
As promised a translation from ‘Golden eggs
About chicken farming and statistics in the Netherlands

Farm animal
Around 1890, the size of chicken farming was still limited. On the farms, no more than a few chickens were roaming around, looking for food on the farm itself. The chicken was still a real farm animal.
Collecting the eggs and caring for the chicken were tasks for the farmer's wife. Only in a few places, such as Barneveld, did large-scale poultry farming for the market take place. This farming was also very profitable.
The laying hen farming has grown explosively since 1890. In 1910, farmers in the Gelderse Vallei were already to be found with 300 chickens. But these were exceptions: it was common to have 40 to 50 chickens on smaller farms, up to a maximum of a hundred chickens on larger farms; the farmer's wife could not oversee more. The chickens were no longer free to roam the yard, but were brought together in so-called chicken runs/parks, enclosed areas of land with a night and laying coop.

Purposeful selection
At the end of the nineteenth century, a hen still produced 80 to 85 eggs per year, in 1930 that was 116 eggs per hen, although the top hens at laying competitions at the National Experimental Station Het Spelderholt
at that time already reached numbers between 170 and 200. In the meantime, the average is already above 300 eggs per year. Incidentally, productivity remained tied to a laying rhythm of one egg per day.
The higher laying average is therefore also the result of the extension of the laying period.
 
old heritage breeds (laying maybe 60-120 eggs a year
Do you know how many eggs each of your chickens lays per year?

My impression is that few people on BYC keep records (even an average for the flock), and very few get anything remotely close to 300 eggs per year from each of their backyard hens. They might say that's because they don't have production breeds or don't aim for maximum productivity etc., but whatever the reason, it brings the converse of your point into view; maybe conventional modern wisdom which is solidly based on commercial exploitation of production breeds doesn't apply very well to most backyard chickens even today.
the genes of old heritage breeds probably changed over time too
they change constantly. There is no reason to take the date a particular handbook happened to be written as a baseline.
Breeding and selecting, for give or take 50 generations, caused changes
It takes much less time, even to 'fix' recessive breed characteristics. The speed with which traits can be lost can be as little as 1 generation - witness all the backyard hybrids and mutts within a generation or 2 from 'pure' stock, like my flock.
Just saying, information in old chicken books are possible not the best source for general egg laying facts
Absolutely. And ditto info on websites. Reading as widely as possible and evaluating each source is the only sensible way to go imo. Revisiting sources is a good idea too, because sometimes a certain amount of knowledge or thinking is needed to recognize quality or to understand what, actually, that source is saying. To cite an easy analogy, that's how people find treasures at car boot sales, for example; they recognize quality that went unnoticed by others, including the current owner and seller.
 
Do you know how many eggs each of your chickens lays per year?
I started to keep track a couple of times. But after max 6 week I started to forget to add the daily numbers. Im really not an administrative type of person.

Of course I do remember some of the things that happened in egg laying facts. Like the first year I had Dutch. Everywhere it was written Dutch lay 120 eggs a year. But after they started, they produced 4-5 eggs a week. I thought then (with no experience at all) 4.5 x 52 = over 200 a year! In december they stopped and started again in march. So if you take of 3 months. It’s still 150 eggs.

I didn’t know then that my chickens would take a long winter break every year they get older. And the number of eggs in 1 week went downwards slowly too. My 4 Dutch (all 6+) that still lay gave me 2 eggs a day on average in April-Mai.

The 2 Amrock newcomers are completely different chickens. In build, egg laying and coping with the heat too. They hatched in June. Started to lay after my Dutch stopped in Autumn. One laid the whole winter period through. The other stopped for about a month around xmass. They lay steadily 5-6 eggs a week.

We have a short heatwave atm and the 2 Amrocks pantrd while Ini mini found herself a spot to sunbath, definitely enjoying it.
 
I found that sort of resource very useful when I was starting out and knew diddly squat about chickens. Feeding and disease management were completely different from modern industrial practice, I found, and I got a lot of insight into both from handbooks that were written before modern practices came in - not least in showing that all sorts of alternatives are possible and sometimes better (imo). I think my favourite is still Lewis Wright The illustrated book of poultry 1873, with J H Robinson Poultrycraft 1904 second. Who wrote the Guide to success you're reading?
Frank Heck. It is a little difficult to navigate the different names for chicken ailments but I can probably look that up easy enough. Some interesting things I’ve noted so far: “Oyster shell is not so valuable and generally supposed…is not necessary when proper food is given.” I have been providing oyster shell free choice for years.
He also has a recipe for homemade chick starter and talks about feeding meat to birds “in confinement.” Nothing earth-shattering but there is an emphasis on birds being able to forage. He even says that 150 eggs a year is a “record” amount which makes sense for that time.
 

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