Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[Perris]

Tax for coop talk: 3 roos queuing to get into the same coop at dusk

 

[kattabelly]

Yes, to deter red mites and other parasites. The poop trays cover it.

Is the texture different on those? I never got them because they're sold as an optional extra. Do they cover the (too small, in my opinion) drainage holes in the floor?

For what it's worth, I didn't see an issue with the roosts being able to shift very slightly or the small amount they stick out into the nest boxes and I'm happy to take your word for it that the door is fox-proof since that's not an issue here.

The coop getting full of rain was the big issue for me, and I know the weather here is more extreme than most of the UK (though I still think it was an issue even in weather that wouldn't be *that* unusual further south).

Some of my chickens, and others I've known here, do prefer to sleep out when the weather allows but all of them seek some kind of indoor shelter when the weather's bad.

 

[Perris]

Is the texture different on those?

Yes it's a different sort of plastic, still smooth and cast in one piece (so no joins for parasites to hide in), but chickens aren't running in the coop so slips don't occur; within one step from the door they're onto a roost.

Do they cover the (too small, in my opinion) drainage holes in the floor?

Yes they do, but any water, from rain coming in the open door when it's coming down diagonally, or condensation during long winter nights still drains through it adequately.

The coop getting full of rain was the big issue for me, and I know the weather here is more extreme than most of the UK (though I still think it was an issue even in weather that wouldn't be *that* unusual further south).

The area just inside the door can get very wet if the coop is facing into driven rain (easy fix with a mobile coop; just rotate to face a different direction). And it can even puddle at that end of the poop tray nearest. But it's not been an issue; the chickens are on the roost a couple of inches above it, and they don't get wet. Those who roost in trees sometimes - surprisingly rarely - appear quite bedraggled, and it doesn't seem to harm them or cause them to change habits.

 

[kattabelly]

Yes they do, but any water, from rain coming in the open door when it's coming down diagonally, or condensation during long winter nights still drains through it adequately.

What about the nest boxes, do you just accept nesting material getting wet and needing to change it regularly? (Sorry, not trying to be picky or negative here - just curious as to how you've found it works best for you)

I do get that they're able to stay dry when they're on the roosts. Just with all the fuss* that's made about humidity and respiratory issues it feels wrong for them to be in there with water all over the floor and dripping down the walls.

*Not really the right word as it implies it's unfounded but I'm drawing a blank on the word I do want!

 

[kattabelly]

Nestera tax

 

[Perris]

What about the nest boxes, do you just accept nesting material getting wet

It gets a little wet in a corner sometimes, but it has not been a problem, even for broodies, hatching eggs or chicks. I think my hatch and survival rates speak for themselves there. Nests in the wild are on the ground (chickens' nests), and the ground can be damp too. I think it's a non-issue.

(Sorry, not trying to be picky or negative here - just curious as to how you've found it works best for you)

No apologies necessary. I am happy to answer any sensible question.

Just with all the fuss* that's made about humidity and respiratory issues

Still waiting on some literature on that (unsupported assertion, by anyone, will not cut it I'm afraid; I want proper published studies).... And now I'm remembering a vet show where a young lad was advised to take his silkie with mycoplasmosis into the shower to breathe steam/ moist air... (it recovered). And that dust (created by an excessively dry environment) is an irritant to the lungs, and presumably to air sacs too. What is the best humidity level for chickens? Anybody read anything on that?

water all over the floor and dripping down the walls.

I've never experienced that. Some on the floor and some on the walls has not caused any respiratory problems for any chicken here.

 

[Shadrach]

I do not think the gaps are accessible to rats, weasels etc; they are at the top of a smooth wall, under an overhang. How do you suppose a rat or weasel would get there in the first place?

They would also need to be big enough to have one paw on the cord and the other, or their nose, at the gap that opened. Rats round here don't grow that big, even if they were that smart.

Mine don't wander, and the slight protrusion into the nest box has not been a problem for any of the generations of chickens here.

Again, it has not been a problem here, and we are exposed too, even if we don't get the winds you do. While on the subject, can anybody point me to some literature on chickens and draughts?

None has here in four coops in 8 years.

Yes, to deter red mites and other parasites. The poop trays cover it.

The people who designed these coops were chicken keepers initially. "Green Frog Designs' adventure began two decades ago in the hills of Somerset. Brothers Adrian and Marcus Morgan both kept chickens for many years, and enjoyed the company of their feathered friends." (our story, on their website) And their coops have been endorsed by the Chair of the Poultry Club of Great Britain, amongst others with long and deep association with chickens, so that's simply false.

You need to assess the design from the angle of a rat or weasel; the smooth sides mean it couldn't climb to the vents or open the door. And I have experience with them to add to those theoretical considerations.

I need to add that I have no vested interest in Nestera as a company. But I will not see these great coops maligned falsely. I think that they're better than the alternatives.

Pointing out some of the shortfalls in my opinion is I think quite reasonable. I've probably been a bit enthusiastic in the task but...
I'll take my boots off and put my slippers on for this I think.

Bear in mind I had to make a few alterations to the Solway coop before I was happy with it and it still has a couple of problems so this isn't a bash Nestera post,

No. I said I took off the rotating part full stop.

My bad. I had assumed you had put some kind of protection over the vents. My apologies.

I think that they're better than the alternatives.

I agree. I would be reluctant to return to wooden coops. As I've mentioned, I've been very pleased with the recycled plastic Solway coop. However, I could write similar and an equal amount of criticism of the Solway coop I have, some of which I've mentioned in this thread. When it comes to the flatpack wooden coops my list of criticisms would be a lot longer. I've covered a few of the points in this article.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/flat-pack-coop-takedown-and-appraisal.78406/

Space.
One of the criticisms I've read a lot of is about the space in pre-built and flat pack coops. Somehow a "rule" has been established that chickens need a minimum of 4 square feet per bird in the coop. The British Hen Welfare Trust (a much respected body in the UK on chicken keeping with years of experience and expert advice) have adopted this rule. My sister was recently refused a couple of Ex Battery hens from this organization because she couldn't provide 4 square feet per bird in the coop. It's complete nonsense, so an appeal to expert advice, in this case for example, is to use an American expression, a straw man argument.
If the chickens are to be kept in the coop for days/weeks/life then 4 square feet per bird is cruel. If the chickens are not kept like this then 4 square feet in the coop isn't necessary.
There are better examples in this thread but these chickens had a choice of two other coops but voted with their feet. At one point there were twenty sleeping in there.

Rats and Weasels.
Rats can jump vertically about three feet; a bit further with a run up. The vents in Nestera coop in question are less than three feet with the coop on the ground, so a rat could jump and hang while it chewed its way in. On the nest box side the rat only has to jump onto the nest box roof and could chew through the plastic quite comfortably. A weasel can jump six feet and maybe even higher. A small weasel can squeeze through a gap an inch wide. There are some interesting videos on the net one which I recall showing a weasel squeezing under the bottom of a door. Weasels are also rather good at chewing through all sorts of material.
Somewhere the Solway marketing state their coops are rat proof. I beg to differ. There are pictures of what a rat did to my Solway coop a few pages back. I think on By Bobs thread there is a post where I show that a rat can chew through an aluminum vent cover.

Mites.
Both Solway and Nestera suggest that there coops are mite resistant. Again I beg to differ. Both you and I have had red mite infestations. The advantage of these recycled plastic coops has been in my experience, is it's a lot easier to eradicate the mites on the plastics these coops are made of. I've found they will happily cope with the heat of a blow torch, within reason.

Drafts.
From the Solway web site.
"Suitable to all weather conditions our houses may require additional sealant in extreme wind and rain."
They do and I have had to seal points around the roof to wall line. For a coop that is designed to be dismantled, such as the Nestera, for easy cleaning, mass producing a coop with tight joints isn't an economic proposition.

I agree that there is no evidence that drafts are likely to cause health issues in chicken. However, my belief is that they are more comfortable without them.

The pop door.
This is the one point that rules this coop out for me. I need to be able to rely on the pop door to open the coop in the morning. I've had the string chewed through twice on the Solway coop and that means the chickens are stuck in the coop until I arrive in the afternoon. If I didn't keep food in the coop overnight that may well solve the problem of rats chewing the string but that isn't an option for me at the field.

Finally for now anyway, I have built well over 20 coops, purchased 4, and my experience has led me to prefer a particular type of build for security, pest resistance, cost and ease of construction. I found this type of construction fulfilled the majority of the features I want for a coop. The chickens that have lived in this design of coop seem to agree with me.

I don't have pictures of the final design, summer rear access door, improved roof rain protection (EDPM sheet covering, improved ventilation under the eves, framed hardware cloth section in the pop door. The nest box section is removable along with the roost bars leaving a completely empty coop with a minimum of seams where mites can live and can be cleaned with a blow torch eliminating the need for the use of any chemicals. It's high enough off the ground to discourage predators from gaining access through the floor and underneath the coop provided some shelter. This coop stood up to 80mph wind gusts, donkeys and sheep using it a s a scratching post, heat and torrential rain and it was portable, admittedly with some effort.

Despite any manufacturers good intentions they are in the business of selling their product; not chicken welfare. Of course this necessitates some limitations on their design. One of Nestra's selling points is their coops can be taken apart for easy cleaning, human convenience. Another is they can be flat packed and shipped, human conveniece. And of course, they need to be suitable for easy assembly with the minimum of tools.

Would I buy another? Probably not; not because they are poor coops but because I believe I could build a coop like the self built above in recycled plastic that would address the issues I have with the one I bought at a similar cost. This doesn't make the Nestera or the Solway bad coops and if one needs to buy a prefabrcated coop I would pick either over any wooden coop I've seen or read about.

 

[Shadrach]

That wasn't a feature of his behaviour here; in fact he was usually one of the first to finish and move on. It suggests that he's not meeting one of his nutritional targets, his protein target probably (he's a growing lad, needs more to synthesize flesh and bones as well as sickle feathers and spurs). Perhaps offer him some sardines first, and then watch for change of behaviour?

I hope protein due to feed composition isn't an issue for him. Access to feed throughout the day may be but if I've understood correctly you feed your chickens twice a day for a limited period of time and take the feed up after.It hasn't been an issue for any of the other chickens since I've cared for them. Don't take my beak in the feed trays comments too seriously. I think his eating habits are quite natural for a bird of his age. I haven't tried him on sardines but he has had roast beef, cooked pork, prawns, nuts, pasta, rice...

 

[kattabelly]

There are better examples in this thread but these chickens had a choice of two other coops but voted with their feet. At one point there were twenty sleeping in there.

Yeah three of mine are currently insisting on sleeping in one Nestera nest box, wet bedding and all

There was one time I think something freaked them out or I'd been rearranging things and I found 12 of them all piled in there together (it was the first place most of them slept outdoors, so familiar and safe). Some nights it's almost empty. They move around quite a lot.

 

[Shadrach]

What about the nest boxes, do you just accept nesting material getting wet and needing to change it regularly? (Sorry, not trying to be picky or negative here - just curious as to how you've found it works best for you)

I do get that they're able to stay dry when they're on the roosts. Just with all the fuss* that's made about humidity and respiratory issues it feels wrong for them to be in there with water all over the floor and dripping down the walls.

*Not really the right word as it implies it's unfounded but I'm drawing a blank on the word I do want!

I had condensation in the Solway coop on the domed roof at one point. This was with eight chickens in the coop and the adjustable vents shut. This problem went away with five chickens in the coop and the adjustable vents closed. I mentioned this earlier in the thread.
It can happen in any coop no matter what material it's built out of. It is more obvious in plastic coops I think and in metal roofed coops even more obvious. One of the things that I found helped with this problem apart from stocking density was the foil backed tarpaulin you can see covering the roof of the Solway coop currently.