Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[Shadrach]

I am not talking about a rooster flock, I am talking about mine, which is

because they are living as naturally as I can manage. And since I don't force them into separate coops in different areas, my flock is probably more natural than what you did with about the same number of birds in Catalonia, which you divided into 'tribes'.

I'm not criticizing your keeping conditions.
If you recall, I didn't split them into tribes. The bantams and Marans split of their own accord much like others have reported with their chickens. After that I just built coops. I didn't move any chickens from one tribe to another. I have housed lone males that didn't become tribe members for various reasons and they all started, or attempted to start their own tribes.

 

[Shadrach]

Others seem to view his "aggression" as a mild annoyance, going about their daily chores while ignoring the repeated floggings they receive. I'm wondering if the latter case is often sparring behavior, and the handler isn't afraid because it doesn't cause injuries, where in the former case the rooster means it.

There have been a few but one keeper most here will know, DobieLover adopted exactly this strategy with her cockerel Fabio who took extreme umbrage at DL working with power tools in his territory. Initially he was a flogging monster, DL and I talked about the problem and they decided to tough it out, an option I have taken a few times in the past. Dress in suitable clothing and let the aggressive little buggers bounce off you. They do eventually get bored and realise that even if you are disturbing their peace violence isn't working.
Fabio turned out to be a wonderful rooster and I know how fond DL became of him.
I've had few floggers, one notable ejit was called Notch. He used to go for me at every opportunity. I ignored him mostly and got on with my business. When he left home and establishe his own tribe I started to work with him, taking the food to him and letting him call the hens, not collecting eggs in daylight hours, stepping in on a few occasions when he got into difficulties with other roosters etc. It took a bout three months and problem over.

 

[Mother of Chaos]

Recent discussions about aggression and hierarchy prompted an idea I would like to explore. Your thoughts sought.

Some bird species are well known for their youngsters going through a phase wherein they practice to develop their motor skills - peregrine falcons, gulls, corvids for example.

Might some of the sort of behaviour that gets young roos a bad name (during what some of us call the jerk phase in a cockerel's life) otherwise be seen as them practicing and developing the skills they will need to protect the flock? Play fighting with each other (when there are more than 1 present) to prepare them for fighting for real when a predator appears? How else could they learn how to fight but with each other? Are we misreading an instinct to protect and defend as aggression?

Kittens certainly do this, and puppies.

(This has probably been mentioned; I’m catching up)

 

[BlindLemonChicken]

After that I just built coops.

What effect do the coops have on the formation of tribes or flocks as opposed to more wild-type (whatever that means in modern chicken societies) chickens? Do un-kept chickens form tribes or flocks based on a particular habitat? I am curious because the chickens I have had that prefer not to sleep in the coop choose to sleep in the same area of scrubby trees with heavy underbrush instead of the large trees with thick branches nearest the coop. But they always do this alone—one chicken in one tree. Even the coop chickens that sleep out in the run sleep close together. But not the tree chickens. It seems like a smart predator strategy on the surface but it hasn’t helped them avoid predators because the trees are not very tall (maybe 20’) and the branches aren’t thick enough that they have lots of options so it seems like a bad life choice to me.

 

[Shadrach]

We had a demonstration or should I write two in the center of Bristol today.
I don't have, or at least didn't have a dog in the race so to speak. I don't think I have ever seen so many police vehicles in one place. Looking at the sizes of the two demonstrating groups I would say there were more police than demonstrators.
Tax payers payed for this.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/protest-march-counter-protest-bristol-10747361

Quite a pleasant afternoon. I was at the field for a couple of hours. Everyone came out but didn't venture far from the chairs in the field where I sit.

 

[Perris]

One doesn't get flocks of chickens in their natural habitat, in the jungle, in evolved populations, one gets distinct groups

Let's put some facts and figures to this. Incidentally, they are called flocks in the academic literature, so that is the term I will use.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...wl_Gallus_gallus_in_Dudwa_National_Park_India

Roosters have favourites

besides friendships, which can exist between hens, between roos, and between hens and roos, this observation has temporal application to do with reproduction
https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-019-41336-5

I just built coops

and located them away from each other, creating separate territories

in his territory

my roos share one territory, without fighting over it or hens. Hens choose roos remember, not vice verse.

What effect do the coops have on the formation of tribes or flocks as opposed to more wild-type (whatever that means in modern chicken societies) chickens?

Exactly. A lot.

the chickens I have had that prefer not to sleep in the coop choose to sleep in the same area of scrubby trees with heavy underbrush

one chicken in one tree

My tree roosting pullets sleep apart from one another about 20' up in the same evergreen bushy conifer and they have to pick their way to their roost spots. They've been doing this without predatory incident since early summer. My tree roosting cockerel roosts alone about 9' up on the highest branches that will hold his weight, in a much smaller evergreen spineless holly. All of them spend their days with the rest of the flock, and are fully integrated members. The flock members who roost in coops do not consistently roost in a specific coop or with specific other birds. Most of them go to roost on their own, look in to see who's already there, decide whether or not to join them and / or move on to the coop next door. Occasionally they will change their minds and exit after someone else has entered and a squabble ensued. It all settles down by sundown, usually. Occasionally a cockerel or roo will emerge in the morning with a minor wound; there are 10 of them in those 4 coops overnight.

 

[Perris]

The structure of a backyard flock also has a significant impact on the behaviour of both males and females. What happens when there is only one male (as so often in BYC flocks) is not the same as what happens when there are several. "These results reveal polyandry as a potent and dynamic modulator of sexual selection episodes."
https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1200219109

 

[Shadrach]

Let's put some facts and figures to this. Incidentally, they are called flocks in the academic literature, so that is the term I will use.
View attachment 4281414
View attachment 4281416
View attachment 4281417
View attachment 4281419
View attachment 4281420
https://www.researchgate.net/public...wl_Gallus_gallus_in_Dudwa_National_Park_India


besides friendships, which can exist between hens, between roos, and between hens and roos, this observation has temporal application to do with reproduction
https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-019-41336-5

and located them away from each other, creating separate territories

my roos share one territory, without fighting over it or hens. Hens choose roos remember, not vice verse.

Exactly. A lot.


My tree roosting pullets sleep apart from one another about 20' up in the same evergreen bushy conifer and they have to pick their way to their roost spots. They've been doing this without predatory incident since early summer. My tree roosting cockerel roosts alone about 9' up on the highest branches that will hold his weight, in a much smaller evergreen spineless holly. All of them spend their days with the rest of the flock, and are fully integrated members. The flock members who roost in coops do not consistently roost in a specific coop or with specific other birds. Most of them go to roost on their own, look in to see who's already there, decide whether or not to join them and / or move on to the coop next door. Occasionally they will change their minds and exit after someone else has entered and a squabble ensued. It all settles down by sundown, usually. Occasionally a cockerel or roo will emerge in the morning with a minor wound; there are 10 of them in those 4 coops overnight.

Let me find some pictures of the coop locations of the tribes in Catalonia and then we can debate this topic further.

 

[Perris]

On the evolutionary role of these behaviours, inc social status, see now
Temporal-dynamics-of-competitive-fertilization-in-social-groups-of-red-junglefowl
https://doi.org/10.1098/rstb.2020.0081

Returning to the original point, practicing fighting must hone motor skills and co-ordination, so that the bird is better able to fight whatever it needs to in order to reproduce its genes, whether that be other males, or something that would eat it, or its chicks, for dinner. I have seen roos attack snakes and rodents; and I have seen them line up shoulder to shoulder and face down an unrestrained dog that was clearly thinking about coming onto our property, for purposes known only to it. They do not consider themselves prey and just run from any threat.

A cockerel raised as the only male, especially in a small flock, may feel the need to develop these skills. Who is he able to practice on, especially if the flock is confined as most are, except the females in the flock or the keeper? There is no alternative option.

And my worry is that then he gets labelled 'aggressive', and many on BYC recommend the novice keeper of such a bird, who comes here asking for advice, to kill him immediately. How many good roos may be summarily slaughtered because of such a misunderstanding?

 

[Perris]

I'm not criticizing your keeping conditions.

I know that. I hope I'm not coming over as if I thought you were.

I am wondering what is the largest number of adult males you've had in one flock at one time though, because almost all your comments seem to relate to the 1-roo flock.