She said/He said Who's right? Who's wrong? No one!

[chicapee]

England will be next. They are getting a strong foothold in London

Unfortunately England has been attacked by terrorists for centuries. The British are always on alert. They patrol airports carrying machine guns. What a world we live in, it always pays to be vigilant.

 

[RubyNala97]

That was a funny one!!

Hiiii! I'm at day19 and have 2 pips out of 12 eggs. Is that ok? It's our very first time! We are so excited!! They are eggs from my own sex links... Yes I have a mess of mutts! But we are proud and excited!!! Just hoping day 19 is ok

That's fine. Your temps might have been a little on the high side. Higher temps make earlier hatches. But they should be fine!! Did you calibrate your thermometer?


loved that one too!!!

 

[AmyLynn2374]

Then you are red, lol... this whole thread was started because AmyLynn2374 and scflock kept giving opposite views on assisted hatches... Amy assists whenever needed (the red side) and sc doesn't assist unless he feels he caused the issue requiring assistance (the blue side)... they fully respect each others views, opinions and hatching styles, but have opposite ways of approaching dilemmas... the thread started with a friendly hatch-off to see which way ended in a higher percentage of chicks hatching and it has grown from there... now it is a place for people needing advice to get it from different perspectives to be able to choose what they're most comfortable with doing in their own hatches...

If you assist then you are red... if you don't then you are blue... if you only assist in certain circumstances you are purple, or any color variation in between... oh, and ones who go in and find a chicks beak to get it internally pipped is orange, which is waaay past red...

Good summation.

I can understand why Amy did not jump in. For the same reason that I didn't. We didn't want to sway the decision on that assist. If someone is asking for opinion, it will be given, but when they are not asking, perhaps just seeking validation, that's not a time to be offering view points that don't support where the person with the dilemma is coming from at the moment.

Excellent. You are accomplishing what we are all striving for. Improved hatching: which encompasses egg quality, incubator quality, and incubation process management.

Ditto.

I'm not an expert. But... this would be my take on it, in my flock. I'd not use him for the basic reason that I wouldn't be assured that his issue was not somehow genetic, or exacerbated by underlying genetic weakness. But... If I was breeding only for my own flock replenishment, and really liked the overall package he presented aside from his balance issues, I might use him, only if I was willing to CULL HARD if any issues showed up in the hatching process, or afterwards.

I had a shipped Dom chick who had some neuro problems. I treated him with Nutri-Drench, Vitamin E, and Selenium. He went from being comatose and cold to the touch, to not being discernible from his siblings within a week. He went on to develop a severe case of scoliosis and congestive heart failure. After talking to my sis (a veterinarian) and formulating some opinions of my own, I believe situations like that may be due to some metabolic deficiency. All chicks on the same diet, why should only one develop Vit E encephalopathy?

Can I ask you: at what age do you process your roos? Do you keep them in a separate grow out pen? Too bad those roos couldn't be as quiet as tomato plants!

I tucked 2 roos in my freezer yesterday. It took me 90 minutes to process them. Poor time management for sure, I can only hope that I will get more efficient. Yes, it does feel good to provide your own!

The first one is the hardest. Never easy. I understand the issues you're facing. You might consider: Using a broomstick to dispatch them, skinning them, and do it with some one there to give moral support.
And, would someone please explain the Blue lotion? I missed that conversation.
9/11 was a life changing event. How do you spell vulnerable? We were discussing that last night. I compared it to Pearl Harbor. Both events were totally shocking as we considered attack on our soil to be something that could never happen HERE! But, it did, and it will again. Sad times in which we live. Hey, SC: I hear that you bought some Ameraucanas!

Not all chicks that have curled toes and splayed legs are correctible
Agreed



WV, you know your my girl, and I'm not arguing with you, nor do I want to kick you while you are down. What you are going through right now is exactly why I don't assist any more. If it died in the shell, you would feel bad. If it died in your hand after you broke it out, you will feel worse. If in 3 days it is crying all the time, legs don't work, and getting physically worse, you will have to make a decision about a cute, fluffy little chick that you have gotten attached to because of all the extra attention you are giving it.
If the chick survives, and thrives, then you will be elated because you saved it. I just have not experienced that elation


Don't play the martyr. This thread was invented because of this very discussion. You and I have always disagreed on this, and this thread was invented to show both sides. Saying you feel very strongly about it is dismissive to me. I feel strongly about it, too. I don't choose not to assist because I am mean. I choose not to assist because it has never worked for me, and it's heartbreaking to end the life of a fluffy chick.

Yes, your experience has been the opposite, but I'm incubating my tenth batch of the year. Odds...
I'm working with multiple flocks, one in particular that could have possible genetic issues. You have a phenomenal track record hatching and assisting, but if you are hatching eggs every 4 weeks, things are going to happen

I agree with this 100%. I really enjoy my chickens. I care for them and protect them as much as I can, but they are chickens. It's not fair to compare culling a chick to aborting a baby with health issues
Exactly

This. This is the REAL reason I kept my mouth shut on the subject all day. We started as a team that could give our differences in opinion on threads, to starting a great thread in which we could help give options to people through our differences to every time there is a serious discussion and I view my opinion in a heartfelt way you belittle me. "Don't play the martyr" ???? Really SC That was neccessary to share your viewpoints? By belittling me that way? By injecting your false read into my personality assesment? I feel very strongly and wasn't ready to be put down on the way I felt. Well, congratulations on not dissapointing me. I did not attack you for your stand on assisting, nor did I say you were a terrible person on the stand you take, just that our experiences in results differ. Nice way to turn a discussion into something negative.

From the top:

Amy, for growing your own flock I completely agree. But if he is that handicapped, he may not be able to do the deed.

My past experience with stargazers/flippers is that they seem to get better then end up with permanent issues as well. I now cull if they stargaze or flip after a week of age.

My roos grow in the general population and if they are of the dual purpose/layer breeds, they are harvested between 12 and 18 weeks or when they are too much of a pain to deal with. They yield very little meat but it's good for chicken pot pies or soup. I won't waste expensive feed on them. When skinning, no more than 15 minutes each from caught to chilling.

As I stated when I asked the question, I have no plans to use him nor do I think he can complete the act very well. I was just curious as to wether a development issue due to improper incubation carries a mutation to the gene as well. Providing that the defect is purely due to improper incubation methods. I plan to err on the side of caution, it's pure curiosity.

 

[FancyFarmQ]

Welcome to this thread, FFQ.  IMO, pips on day 19 is far better than not seeing them till day 22 or 23.  Mutts make great layers!  What are you running your humidity at now?  

If they are ready to come out on day 19, then its fine!  Even after a pip, it could still be several hours....  Let us know how it goes please!!

That was a funny one!!
That's fine. Your temps might have been a little on the high side. Higher temps make earlier hatches. But they should be fine!! Did you calibrate your thermometer?
loved that one too!!!

Thank you for the support!
Humidity is now at 70%

I did not calibrate my thermometer but between 2 it was usually at 99.5-100

 

[AmyLynn2374]

Hiiii! I'm at day19 and have 2 pips out of 12 eggs. Is that ok? It's our very first time! We are so excited!! They are eggs from my own sex links... Yes I have a mess of mutts! But we are proud and excited!!! Just hoping day 19 is ok

My last two hatches started on day 19. The first one of those two I had pips day 19, but saw my first hatcher day 20. The second I not only had pips but hatchers on day 19. All healthy and active and have grown into fine birds. I myself have mostly barnyard mixes and LOVE them.

 

[Sally Sunshine]

Remember my friends, both sides are typing words, we cannot completely read
emotion behind them. be it quickly typed, lack of definition, or emotional extent implied. You all know each other better than to go so deep. As Oz sAys. "They are just chickens for God's sake" and in saying that.... How any ways can that written statement imply? Some interpret as humor others reality

Edit because I cant spell worth chicken poop

 

[FancyFarmQ]

That's great to hear!!! Awesome! Thank you!

I am starting to wonder if mine are line bred

We bought them from the feed store as a straight run, on sale heavies...and come to find out they are sex links... So I kind of wonder If they are brothers and sisters too??

 

[WalnutHill]

As I stated when I asked the question, I have no plans to use him nor do I think he can complete the act very well. I was just curious as to wether a development issue due to improper incubation carries a mutation to the gene as well. Providing that the defect is purely due to improper incubation methods. I plan to err on the side of caution, it's pure curiosity.

On the other topic, I think you are putting too much weight into what you read. Please try to relax and enjoy this thread. It's a discussion forum, not a rulebook. To respond or not is your choice, of course, but when you do, do it because you want to.

Incubation issues may indeed induce genetic defects that could be transmissible depending on what they are. Remember that an entire organism is built from scratch in only 21 days more or less! The temp swings are more dangerous than you might think. My first homebuilt incubator was a Frankenstein factory. It had no thermostat, just a light bulb and a socket and a dimmer switch, and it created chicks with deformed legs, chicks with undeveloped eyes, chicks with monstrously large heads...and made me give up incubating for 15 years. Frighteningly, most of the chicks actually made it to lockdown/hatch, and all but 2 were immediate culls.

 

[WalnutHill]

Remember my friends, both sides are typing words, we cannot completely read
emotion behind them. be it quickly typed, lack of definition, or emotional extent implied. You all know each other better than to go so deep. As Oz sAys. "They are just chickens for God's sake" and in saying that.... How any ways can that written statement imply? Some interpret as humor others reality

What she said

 

[AmyLynn2374]

On the other topic, I think you are putting too much weight into what you read. Please try to relax and enjoy this thread. It's a discussion forum, not a rulebook. To respond or not is your choice, of course, but when you do, do it because you want to.

Incubation issues may indeed induce genetic defects that could be transmissible depending on what they are. Remember that an entire organism is built from scratch in only 21 days more or less! The temp swings are more dangerous than you might think. My first homebuilt incubator was a Frankenstein factory. It had no thermostat, just a light bulb and a socket and a dimmer switch, and it created chicks with deformed legs, chicks with undeveloped eyes, chicks with monstrously large heads...and made me give up incubating for 15 years. Frighteningly, most of the chicks actually made it to lockdown/hatch, and all but 2 were immediate culls.

I am going to only address the later..... That is what I was wondering. If the defect remains as just physical or if it mutates the gene as the chick is developing.