She said/He said Who's right? Who's wrong? No one!

[NTBugtraq]

Now imagine me killing 81 at a time...

 

[AmyLynn2374]

I would love to learn something from this thread as it was recommended reading, but after reading up to page 3, I noticed I have 4100+ unread posts...WHOA!!

Can anyone recommend a couple of post numbers to get through the noise to the signal?

HI. Welcome to the trhead!

Hey, I just read your post on the hatch along thread. And I just tried to respond here but the computer ate my response, I guess. So I'll re-type it all. I'm sorry to hear your hatch didn't go so well. I would make a post on this thread and give all the details you can about the hatch. What incubator you use, your temps & humidity, and your results. There are a lot of very experienced hatchers on here. Amy just got 100% hate rate in an LG last week. They can definitely help you fine tune your practices so you can increase your hatch rate. I just finished my hatch as well. The longest I let a chick stay in the incubator is 24 hours. I hope this helps.
Oh no! I hope he's okay. Stay close incase you need to help!! Any more pips?

I've just finished my 2nd hatch ever (I'm doing my project breed of chickens), and my results this time were worse than my 1st hatch.

1st Hatch set 41 in a Hovabator 1588 with fan and turning tray. Candling didn't work well (was trying to use a flashlight with too few lumens) and I did not know about weight loss vs. humidity. Followed the instructions in the bator box, kept humidity ~50% till Day 18 then increased it to 75%. I was very hands on after Day 18, removing shells, and chicks, as they were ready (dry). I got 19/41...no idea really how many were infertile but I suspect it was 8 or so.

2nd Hatch set 41 again, candled (with Ova Scope HI) and weighed Day 3, 5, 7, 10, 13, 15, and 18. Removed 7 infertile by Day 10, the rest I thought were viable. 14 hatch on Day 20, and 8 more by the morning of Day 21. I candle a couple of the eggs, and while no movement, they didn't appear dead. So I left everything in the bator and took Sally Sunshine's advice, left them be. Nothing happened Day 22, but on the morning of Day 23 (this morning) I find 11 dead chicks in the bator. 2 more die within 10 minutes of being placed in the brooder. So 9/41 this time. Temps appeared appropriate ~100F, maybe a little high) and humidity was 53% this morning.

Clearly I am crushed at this massive failure...but I thought they would be ok in the bator for 3 days. This makes me want to go back to my previously Amy-ish behavior.

Set 41 more this morning with the plan of not touching anything (adding no water, it runs around 25-30% humidity) until Day 10, then again on Day 16, and 18. Candling and Weighing on each of those days, and adjusting humidity as required. Also, will drop the temperature on each day after Day 18 by 0.5F each day. This time I will take out the dry chicks and shells when they are available. I will also have a 2nd bator by the time this set goes into lockdown (a Brinsea Octogon 40 ADV EX), and plan to put eggs which have not achieved enough weight loss into it on lockdown day so they can be handled separate from the rest.

Any post numbers you can point me to that you think I should read?

Nothing wrong with Amyish behavior.

Your 50% humidity sounds a bit high to me for the norm .I believe it's best to aim between 35-45% overall. I started mine the first 5-7 days with around 30% and then figured out how to get it higher so keeping it in "the range" now. Also 100 degrees is too hot from what I've heard at hatch. I believe you're supposed to aim around 98-99 degrees. The ones yo ulost I believe were just to hot for too long and used up their stored food. Again very sorry about your losses here but I have a good feeling about your next hatch.

It depends on wether the incubator is forced air or still air. Forced is is recmmended at 99.5, but still air is recommended at 101-102 taken near the tops of the egg. I am just happy as long as I can keep my temps above 99 and below 101. The joys of the lttle giant. lol I usually average 99.5-100.5 when my bator is cooperating and that's where I like it.

Honestly, it would be easier for Amy to just pick up on your post from here than trying to find it earlier in the thread. She just had a 100% hatch in styrofoam, and she will be a big help to you. When you get the Brinsea, I can point you in the right direction. The Brinsea is going to seem sent from heaven after a few tough hatches in styrofoam.
Just to let you know, I kind of pick at people in this thread, so if you read something from here on out that makes you think I'm mean, I'm really not

Just in case you don't see a pattern...sc likes his Brinsea.

Lolz, I did say I read the first 3 pages...;-] So all good. I can get testy at times, so you're more likely to think me mean than me you...

What do you think of the idea of taking eggs that haven't lost enough weight and putting them in the Brinsea for the lockdown?

I need someone to offset my once a month testiness, take some pressure off the one time I got a little over-sensative.

BCM are going to make it even tougher in styrofoam. There is a lot of debate over what is the proper humidity on those eggs just because of the extra pigment layers on the eggs. The posts that make the most sense to me are the ones that say they need an even lower humidity because the shells don't lose moisture as easily as white or light brown eggs. I would say 50% was a little high, even for lighter eggs. I would be very curious for you to follow Amy's advice. When she gets here, you will hear all about "dry incubation". I give her a hard time, but I believe in her when it comes to styrofoam

He loves me....he just can't admit it...lmao

Wow, I guess this is just the "Advance". Still a nope for me.

My name is Inigo Montoya...You killed my father, prepare to die...

That movie!!!

 

[Alaskan]

Hi Alaskan,

Thank you for dropping by. I was asking SC about my cockerel and he said he knew some folks that could really size them up. I know he has some growing to do, but what think ye of this young ones potential? Good for breeding or eating? SC thought he might have "leakage".

Leakage as in too much copper? And there in the chest..etc? Not always a bad thing, especially if your girls are way too black. My girls are way too black, so I would love me some leakage on my rooster.

I would love to see a close up of the back of his comb... If it is flat, then even if it isn't Leghorn worthy, it is fine.


@NTBugtraq well, he gets a top score for vitality and power to thrive through adveristy! Not enough of him left to see how close he is to SOP, except to see that he carries his tail well.

 

[Alaskan]

It looked an awful lot like one

So is Ameraucana what they call BCM rejects? Who came up with the breed; Ameraucana? Cause that name has definite EU origins, no?

I should add, that's an awesome looking Roo, who cares what breed!

Ameraucana is a totally different breed... I just like my roo, he is pretty awesome, still has some faults... (White in his face fluff, wings too droopy, white fluff at the base of tail) he also has the most pathetic crow... Really bad.

 

[AmyLynn2374]

@NTBugtraq So, like sc said I push low humidity incubation methods for the styro bators and checking the air cells to guide for adjustments. If you have accurate thermometers (99.5 forced air and 101-102 still air) and hygrometers, it is my belief that this is the way to go. (Unless you are sc and own a Binsea, which I am pretty sure you have him

at the thought of a 40). I pull my chicks out after hatch for a couple reasons. ONe my lg has a fan w/o a guard and I had 2 chicks get hurt, one almost scalped on the thing. The hatch before that I had one get a chipped beak while playing king of the hill off the thermometer and one burn his head standing on the thermometer and stretching out under the heating element. SO for me, I feel my little ones are safer in the brooder. My second reasoning is I think the "they are fine for three days thing is a bunch of crock." (Sorry sc, you know you're my favorite-usually....) Ok, so many people leave them in for 2-3 days w/o incident-that they can tell. Of course they don't know how empty these guys tummies are or how hungry they are much less thirsty. (I anthropomorphize greatly in regards to animals.) A hatcher doesn't generally know if their chicks are dehydrated (at least most of your every day back yard flock hatchers.) If a chick absorbs their yolk sac on day 19 as the development chart states is the average and can go 3 days after absorption then by day 21 they have used that resource almost completely up. I know I know they say it's 3 days after hatch, based on what? We as humans can go days without eating and live, that doesn't mean we should or we want to. My last hatch I noted the differences in the swelling of the abdomen at hatch. This to me shows that some chicks had absorbed yolk earlier and had already used the reserve and others had absorbed later and still had some of that reserve left. Anyhow, that's my argument for not leaving chicks in the bator. That and I'm just a meddler and apparently a control freak when it comes to hatching and I want to see them out where I can interact.

I keep my humidity up at 75%+ during hatch so that can be done safely. (I have a whole other rant about the opening the bator causes death and will shrinkwrap your chicks, but if I go into that you'll be here all night reading. Let's just say if you take the precautions and keep your humidity up and make sure it comes back up after opening, there should be little to worry about.

If your temps are right and you are adjusting your humidity according to your air cells, (in my siggy at the bottom I have a link to my blog page on the method I use in it's entirety,) then you should have a fairly decent hatch as long as you aren't assisting before it's necessary.

With all that being said, what concerns me is if I am understanding correctly, it sounds as though you are loosing an awful lot post hatch. So, here's where I have some questions. Forgive me if you've already said and I missed it in my skimming. (I don't usually skim, but sc thinks I do....this time I did. 108 posts is a lot to catch up on.

)

One have you tried using sav a chick electrolyte in the water after hatch. I use the sav a chick for the first couple of days. It doesn't hurt them to have the extra electrolyte and if there is any unknown instances of dehydration after hatch (yes, it does happen), it gives them what they need. I also use the medicated chick starter in the beginning too. I buy one small bag and when it's gone I switch to normal starter. There is a big debate on using medicated, and I don't give a crap, it's what I've always done and it's worked well for me. (I've only ever had three post hatch chick deaths. One to digestive problems, one that hatched with a ruptured yolk sac and still active chick to egg veining and one unexplained -I don't have a clue -it was perfectly healthy- that was found a week after hatch flattened by the other chicks in the bator.) So for me, I will continue to use the medicated to start with, it's served me well.

Now, you said 11 died in the bator. You have your vents open for air flow, right? Not using any harsh chemical cleanser between incubation on the bator that could be giving off unknown fumes to the chicks? What is your source for your water? Could there be something in the water contributing to their deaths?

And there is the question, I know it was mentioned, of breeder stock. That would be a big question in my mind with all the post hatch deaths. The eggtopsies you did said appeared to be normal. No mushy chick or overly wet chicks? You said they were BCM, right?

 

[AmyLynn2374]

Ameraucana is a totally different breed... I just like my roo, he is pretty awesome, still has some faults... (White in his face fluff, wings too droopy, white fluff at the base of tail) he also has the most pathetic crow... Really bad.

My ee roo has a pathetic crow as well..lol Sounds like someone is choking him while hes tryng to crow...lol My nn has the perfect(ly annoying) crow and he's so cocky he struts and crows anytime anyone walks out of the house or comes in the driveway.

 

[snowbird]

Uh oh, snowbird is lurking

Snowbird, if you happen to read this, feel free to stop in and say Hi. A couple of us have posted pics of BCM, and we joke about how brutal the other thread can be, but I've also talked about how much I've learned from you and the others. I think it would be cool if you could pick apart my bird just to show someone what a real breeder sees

The first thing you know is he has the Carnation Comb, most likely some Penne blood mixed in to improve egg color. He has the blended Hackle saying he has some wheaten blood.. The feet feathering is real good. If you have some dark females you could use the Copper on the breast to help with female copper in the hackle. Don

 

[WVduckchick]

So I am officially into day 21. Still no babies out. 3 pips, the oldest being about 17 hours. Its still working and chirping, so I'm still waiting. I hate this time when I tell myself I'm not going to do this again, knowing I'll change my mind, but goodness! @sideWing - the one that pipped toward the floor is also still alive. Its around 10 hours now, making a little progress, but I'm not overly hopeful for it. I hope it proves me wrong.

 

[AmyLynn2374]

So I am officially into day 21. Still no babies out. 3 pips, the oldest being about 17 hours. Its still working and chirping, so I'm still waiting. I hate this time when I tell myself I'm not going to do this again, knowing I'll change my mind, but goodness! @sideWing - the one that pipped toward the floor is also still alive. Its around 10 hours now, making a little progress, but I'm not overly hopeful for it. I hope it proves me wrong.

You're killing me. Tell Blobby get a move on! I want to see what he is! I hate the wait. Especially for the first one.

 

[lazy gardener]

Your 50% humidity sounds a bit high to me for the norm .I believe it's best to aim between 35-45% overall. I started mine the first 5-7 days with around 30% and then figured out how to get it higher so keeping it in "the range" now. Also 100 degrees is too hot from what I've heard at hatch. I believe you're supposed to aim around 98-99 degrees. The ones yo ulost I believe were just to hot for too long and used up their stored food. Again very sorry about your losses here but I have a good feeling about your next hatch.

I tend to thwart convention. In my forced air home made incubator, I aim for 100 degrees. My thermometers are calibrated to 100 degrees. I use a medical thermometer to calibrate, so am fairly certain that 100* is accurate. My hatches are good percentage 22/23/26 at last hatch with one stinker, one clear one mid and one late dead in shell. And at least 75% of my chicks hatch on day 21 with an occasional one before, and a few after. Never curled toes, hernias or unabsorbed yolks, or any other issues that might be associated with temp issues. The reason that I go a bit high is that IMO, if the temp fluctuates a degree up or down, 100 is a good starting point. But if I start at 99.5, and go low, I get down into what is IMO an unsafe low. Just my opinion. This has worked well for me.