She said/He said Who's right? Who's wrong? No one!

[NTBugtraq]

I usually track 2 different hatch rates. Set-hatch for fertility, and lockdown-hatch to judge how well my incubation techniques are working. On the 12 eggs that did nothing, you mean they did absolutely nothing? No development at all? Did you crack them after you incubated to check? I'm not surprised that you have fertility issues with 1 roo over 23 hens, but that still doesn't explain the developed chicks that are dying in the incubator, or after the hatch. Yes, my saying a minimum of 30 chicks is based on at least 90% of them being fertile. I will say that I would bet money on hatching at least 75% of fertile eggs

I only opened 2 of the 12 eggs that did not pip. One had a full formed chick in the right position. The other popped when I cracked it and it was a stinking black mess...which is why I didn't open any more eggs. Through my 2 hatches, I am averaging ~18% infertile eggs. I am hoping for a higher fertility rate in this hatch. My flock has shrank to 21 layers in this time, and the roo has had 5 weeks to recover from the dog attack.

 

[RubyNala97]

Oops, forgot... my 2nd polish hatched just before midnight. So I have 3 cochin and 2 polish, and 1 polish on the way. Quickly candled when I removed the last one this morning, so I'm doubtful on the rest. Looks like my parade will get rained out! I do have one splay leg and curled foot -- on the fella that pipped on the wrong side of the egg. And the first polish had a little pasty butt, but looks good this morning. And since I take a million pictures, I'm going to share a few...

I love pictures! I take more pics of my chicks then my human babies. (Don't tell them!) I love the second picture with the white one, bent over & looking at the camera!! Classic!! I, also had one with splayed legs. I used the bandaid and left it on for 5 days. Which leads me to my next comment. Also, we keep having pasty butts! Ugh!

Olive oil or mineral oil. I put a little in a small bowl, then let their foot soak in it until the tape or bandaid is saturated. It helps if your husband can hold it still while you work the tape off

I wish I would have known this yesterday!!! My, now healed, splayed leg one is walking around with bare legs because I took his bandaid brace off. Argh!! Next time, I'll know!!

Wow! #1 on my hatch day. And I wasn't at work posting all day lol!! I agree though, great group of folks and I'm happy to be a part! I'm going to cry over blobby too. I still have a tingle of hope for him, but not much.... Waaaaah!

Awww. Did you see any movement? Was that the egg that was also very transparent? I knew my blob was gone because I could see right in the egg & it was obvious. That's sad.

 

[AmyLynn2374]

I did suggest that perhaps their brains were fried as part of the heat stress...??



How do you treat infertile eggs when judging hatch rate? In my first hatch, there were definitely 8 infertiles, and in my 2nd hatch there were at least 7 infertiles. Who knows how many of the 12 eggs that did nothing were infertile also. I think I mentioned it already, but I have received 2 x 3 week old purebred BCM (pretty sure) roos from a friend to help get the fertility rate up.

Also, as I was checking in on the 3 Stooges, I was amazed. They were all sitting on the face of my thermometer pecking away at a single piece of wood chip. Larry (the fat one), gets off and heads towards the food dish.

He starts pecking at the dry food outside the dish

Curly then follows him and does some pecking at dry food too

Finally, Moe runs across the wet food dish and jumps to the paper towel and pecks some food and poo. Finally! Within 10 seconds, they all run back and sit on the thermometer again and continue pecking at the wood chip. Alas. I guess, however, if they're popping they're eating something they can process. So perhaps they just don't want me to see them eat that often. Anyway, it would seem that the crisis has been averted.

It depends what who wants to know. I calculate fertility (which last two hatches weren't hard they were 100%) Then I calculate set hatch (all fertile x how many hatch) and the lockdown rate (how many are going to lockdown x how many hatch) this is the most important rate for me. Last hatch I set 21, I had 100% fertility I lost one at around 4-5 days to blood ring leaving me with 20 and all 20 made it to lock down so my set rate is 95% All 20 that went into lockdown hatched perfectly healthy so that gave me 100% lockdown rate. I NEVER count clears. Usually it signifies infertility or something wrong with the egg and that is something that has nothing to do with my incubation and methods.

I figured they would be eating when they were ready. They really usually do, sometimes it just takes them longer.

I usually track 2 different hatch rates. Set-hatch for fertility, and lockdown-hatch to judge how well my incubation techniques are working. On the 12 eggs that did nothing, you mean they did absolutely nothing? No development at all? Did you crack them after you incubated to check? I'm not surprised that you have fertility issues with 1 roo over 23 hens, but that still doesn't explain the developed chicks that are dying in the incubator, or after the hatch. Yes, my saying a minimum of 30 chicks is based on at least 90% of them being fertile. I will say that I would bet money on hatching at least 75% of fertile eggs

Yes, we want to be counting just developing eggs....lol

 

[WalnutHill]

My mistake, I was reading posts on the phone and missed your post before the one I quoted, and I misunderstood what you were saying. When I read this: " See I can understand 10 sq.ft. of free-range space per bird...but not when they're fed from feeders and not allowed to free-range." I took it to mean you were saying that 10ft per bird was not sufficient if the birds were not allowed to free range. I got defensive, because my birds are never allowed to free range, but they are protected and healthy. Early on I read that confined birds needed 10sqft per bird of pen space. My smallest pen is 12x24 with 8 birds in it, so they have over 30sqft of space/bird, but I also plan to add more birds in the future. I thought you were saying that it wasn't fair to keep them penned and not allowed to free range. I didn't realize that you were saying you didn't have the room to have 10ft/ bird with 100 birds. I thought you were telling me I was wrong to pen them. I wasn't implying that had anything to do with incubation mistakes, I just meant that I thought you were looking for help, then criticizing others, but like I said, I misunderstood your post. I apologize.
So, with all of that being said, I think 208sqft of space for 100 birds is tight. My coops have more space/bird than that. I could possibly see that for meat birds, but thats going to be very cramped for layers. Do you have a spot where you can build a longer run, or is Hell's half acre all you are working with?

It depends on the birds. My production layers are in a 336 foot coop less 36 feet for the feed room. There are about 170 birds in there, they are light large fowl, about 4 pounds, and are by no means crowded. I have 16 broilers in 70 square feet, and they are not crowded. But I have 4 adult heritage breeder turkeys in 100 square feet, and they act crowded (they have a 14 x 14 outdoor run as well).

 

[WVduckchick]

I love pictures! I take more pics of my chicks then my human babies. (Don't tell them!)

I love the second picture with the white one, bent over & looking at the camera!! Classic!! I, also had one with splayed legs. I used the bandaid and left it on for 5 days. Which leads me to my next comment. Also, we keep having pasty butts! Ugh!
I wish I would have known this yesterday!!! My, now healed, splayed leg one is walking around with bare legs because I took his bandaid brace off. Argh!! Next time, I'll know!!
Awww. Did you see any movement? Was that the egg that was also very transparent? I knew my blob was gone because I could see right in the egg & it was obvious. That's sad.

I'm using a bread-tie on the legs. I taped one foot, so that's the tape I'm worried about, but I'll try the oils. I figure worst case, I'll have to cut some feathers off with it lol.

I "think" I saw a little movement in blobby, but not sure. Might have been in my head, just wishing for it. The air cell is dipped, but not as much as I would have expected. I'm guessing he died around day 20. The other one that I have a little hope for, the air cell is hugely enlarged from day 18, like it should. The other 3 look almost like they did on day 18. "blobby" was the one with the spot that never moved. The really transparent one was the first polish out. (the cute one bending in to look at the camera!) All 3 polish eggs were a lot more transparent than the cochins. So your really transparent one was the one with the blob? I didn't realize that.

Which brings up another point.... I noticed that the eggs that are remaining in my incubator have a different "finish" on them. They are more smooth and shiny. The ones that hatched have a more matte finish. Anybody ever noticed that, or any opinions on what causes that?

 

[scflock]

I love pictures! I take more pics of my chicks then my human babies. (Don't tell them!)

we don't have kids, just a bunch of chickens and a spoiled dog. We set up a Groovebook account to get printed pics every month. They let you upload 100 pics/month, so we alternate: chickens-dog-chickens-dog

 

[NTBugtraq]

It depends on the birds. My production layers are in a 336 foot coop less 36 feet for the feed room. There are about 170 birds in there, they are light large fowl, about 4 pounds, and are by no means crowded. I have 16 broilers in 70 square feet, and they are not crowded. But I have 4 adult heritage breeder turkeys in 100 square feet, and they act crowded (they have a 14 x 14 outdoor run as well).

I'm glad to hear I wasn't totally out of my mind at 2 sq.ft. per bird.

 

[cppeace]

It's a breed by breed thing some chickens just don't like being cooped up really and acted crowded even with 6 feet per bird.

 

[lazy gardener]

, but like I said, I misunderstood your post. I apologize.

Thanks, I figured things were a tad muddled...;-]

The run uses my house wall as one wall. I could turn it into a T-shaped affair. Alternatively, the layers don't have all of the structure on the house wall, there's a 2nd pen in there with no nesting boxes that I am using for the young ones, and, will keep the roos in there till they go to processing. If I took the wall separating those two coops, I'd have 340 sq.ft. of space. Then I'd have to build another structure to keep the roos and young ones in. At what age do you let young layer chicks mingle with your laying flock?

NT: glad you didn't take lasting offense! Re: letting chicks mingle with the flock: I think a lot depends on your flock dynamics, amount of space available, and if you have plenty of places for the chicks to get away from the older ones. I integrated chicks last year at 9 weeks without incident. Started by letting them all out to free range together. Initially, the chicks were moved from brooder/tractor in the garage to same tractor outside in the yard. They were then let out to free range. Then moved into lower level of 8 x 12 coop where they had 4 x 8 partitioned off under the hen's loft. Then, I removed the divider. This year, I've found the integration to be more difficult between chicks with 3.5 week age difference (6 older, 22 younger) I had them in the above mentioned loft with a divider, then let the littles mingle with the bigs during the day when I was around to supervise. Started that about 3 weeks ago. Then, I gave them a very small run that is inside the big flock's run, and cut some doors so the chicks could come and go at will (Thanks Azygous for the idea) They've been doing great. Jack the roo loves his babies, and will tid-bit them. The hens give a bit of chase, and an occasional peck. One of the hens got into a serious altercation with a cockrel yesterday. I doubt that he'll go near her again! So, the littles are integrated (during the day) with the big flock at 6 weeks old. It would be a bit different if they were expected to roost together. Also, key is to be sure there are plenty of feeding stations. I also use lots of scratch during integration to give them something productive to do.

Regarding your difficult hatches: I have to wonder if there is some infectious process going on. You're buying a Brinsea? Hope that solves the issue.

I did suggest that perhaps their brains were fried as part of the heat stress...??



How do you treat infertile eggs when judging hatch rate? In my first hatch, there were definitely 8 infertiles, and in my 2nd hatch there were at least 7 infertiles. Who knows how many of the 12 eggs that did nothing were infertile also. I think I mentioned it already, but I have received 2 x 3 week old purebred BCM (pretty sure) roos from a friend to help get the fertility rate up.

Also, as I was checking in on the 3 Stooges, I was amazed. They were all sitting on the face of my thermometer pecking away at a single piece of wood chip. Larry (the fat one), gets off and heads towards the food dish.

He starts pecking at the dry food outside the dish

Curly then follows him and does some pecking at dry food too

Finally, Moe runs across the wet food dish and jumps to the paper towel and pecks some food and poo. Finally! Within 10 seconds, they all run back and sit on the thermometer again and continue pecking at the wood chip. Alas. I guess, however, if they're popping they're eating something they can process. So perhaps they just don't want me to see them eat that often. Anyway, it would seem that the crisis has been averted.

You should take note of infertile eggs, b/c that indicates your roo is not getting the job done for what ever reason. But, the infertiles should not count in your hatch rate IMO. This would be one time (among many) when it would be good reason to do an eggtopsy at end of hatch. No blood in an egg = no embryo development.

Could be that your Stooges were late absorbing their yolks, and therefore not hungry until just recently. Amy and I have had recent discussion regarding the yolk absorption in relation to chicks starting to eat. I'd like to suggest a new experiment: When removing chicks to the brooder, take note of the fullness of their bellies, and their overall muscle tone. Are the bellies full, and the chicks have a "plump" "heavy" feel to them? Or do they have bellies that are not as full, and they feel a bit leaner, and lighter? I've done some reading in the past regarding how those leaner chicks don't fare so well in hatchery shipping, b/c they've already used their yolk reserves. So... I'm throwing out a suggestion that we do an informal study. It would be most easily done with smaller hatches, unless you had the resources for a divided brooder. Note how soon chicks from each group start feeding. See if there's any correlation between skinny/plump chicks and the time they start actively feeding.

 

[WalnutHill]

I'm glad to hear I wasn't totally out of my mind at 2 sq.ft. per bird.

I have about 100 linear feet of roost pole so all the birds are off the floor at night and whenever they want, and 20 nest boxes, and 8 feet of trough feeder plus a couple of hanging feeders. I think the key to high density is the availability of personal space within the space, and that means multiple levels (colonial vs ranch on the same footprint).