Shipped eggs in incubator

[newchickychick]

So, we took the plunge and have 20 shipping eggs arriving Saturday! My plan was to immediately (carefully) unpackage them and set them fat end up at room temperature next to the brooders in an egg carton for 24 hours.

My question is: to help continue to let the air cells reattach, do we take out the egg turners and keep them in the carton with the fat end up for 3-4 days of the incubation period? We have a Maticoopx30. I had understood about day 7 is a good day to do the first candling. Do we then put the ones doing well back in, fat end still up (vertically aligned) into the egg turners after that first candling after unviable ones are removed?

Wanting to be sure I understand it right to make things go as smoothly as possible.

 

[newchickychick]

Another question too: dry or wet hatch? Though we live in a super humid area, the humidity really doesn’t make it into the house as it’s sealed pretty darn well and we’ve got good AC going. How do you know if you’ve got the right environment for better results with dry hatching? Is it better to try normal (wet) your first hatch anyhow? And if a hatch turns out poorly, is there a good way to tell if it was the humidity (or lack thereof)?

To clarify, here it can easily be 86% humidity outside but I really don’t think it’s close to that in our house, especially the room the eggs are in. It can also drop down no problem to 30% outside within a short period. Sometimes it’s within the same day, sometimes within 24 hours, etc. but I will say it’s typically relatively humid outside during these months. When deciding to dry vs wet hatch, should I be looking at the outside humidity? Or basically just monitor the humidity in the incubator with no water added? My incubator has the water added and has maintained 50-55% easy, despite our humid area of the state. (I do have a govee brand thermometer/hygrometer arriving today to be sure it’s accurate). Our second incubator arrives today as well and I plan to monitor it without any added water too!

 

[ChickenCanoe]

OK, I may end up in the minority on these points but hear me out.
First of all, an air cell is formed at the moment the egg is laid. The cooling of the ingredients from 110F to ambient temperature causes them to shrink. This causes the inner and outer membrane to separate at the large end drawing in air to fill the gap formed by that shrinkage.
If an egg is jarred to the point that the air cell is floating around, it means the inner membrane has most likely ruptured. In that case, it will never "reattach". It is just an air bubble floating around in the albumen.
Your focus at that point is care of the blastoderm which becomes the embryo and the yolk that feeds it. If the air cell moves, cell division will still proceed at the right temperature.

Turning is critical at this time. Especially the first 10 days to 2 weeks so don't delay turning. Turning is essential for development of extra-embryonic membranes, allantois and amnionic. The sooner these membranes form, the better they help the embryo develop.

Allowing the egg to settle for up to 24 hours is a good idea but it is to stabilize the entire contents, not to reattach the air cell. But holding them in a carton, large end up, will allow the air cell to rise to that point.
Depending on the type of turner you have, you can move them into the turner that that point. If you have a turner that lays the eggs flat, you may want to keep them in a carton provided you can tilt the carton adequately several times a day to simulate turning.

 

[newchickychick]

OK, I may end up in the minority on these points but hear me out.
First of all, an air cell is formed at the moment the egg is laid. The cooling of the ingredients from 110F to ambient temperature causes them to shrink. This causes the inner and outer membrane to separate at the large end drawing in air to fill the gap formed by that shrinkage.
If an egg is jarred to the point that the air cell is floating around, it means the inner membrane has most likely ruptured. In that case, it will never "reattach". It is just an air bubble floating around in the albumen.
Your focus at that point is care of the blastoderm which becomes the embryo and they yolk that feeds it. If the air cell moves, cell division will still proceed at the right temperature.

Turning is critical at this time. Especially the first 10 days to 2 weeks so don't delay turning. Turning is essential for development of extra-embryonic membranes, allantois, chorion and amnionic. The sooner these membranes form, the better they help the embryo develop.

Allowing the egg to settle for up to 24 hours is a good idea but it is to stabilize the entire contents, not to reattach the air cell. But holding them in a carton, large end up, will allow the air cell to rise to that point.
Depending on the type of turner you have, you can move them into the turner that that point. If you have a turner that lays the eggs flat, you may want to keep them in a carton provided you can tilt the carton adequately several times a day to simulate turning.

The turner in the Maticoopx would be like a rocking back and forth motion for them. They'd be set with the fat end up and pointy ends down, so vertically! So I'd be able to keep them in that shipped position for the entire time of the incubation. It would honestly be easier with the number of eggs as well.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Perfect. I'd put them in the turner and wait 12 to 20 hours to turn the turner on if you can power it independently from the heat element.

 

[newchickychick]

Perfect. I'd put them in the turner and wait 12 to 20 hours to turn the turner on if you can power it independently from the heat element.

Unfortunately I can't, which was one reason I was thinking about just leaving them in the cartons for 5-7 days without turning until I did a first candle as an excuse to remove them from the shipping carton and still settle just a bit longer, then be able to put them into the turners as I went so they could start being rocked at that point. I definitely want to try to give them the best care I can, especially since two of the eggs are rarer and the breeder was REALLY kind to include them in the random assortment. (I'd had no idea they were likely fairly rare - I just like mohawk chickens )

The other issue is the dry hatching vs wet. Do you typically have a preference? It's always humid here outside of the house but I feel like the house rarely gets too much bleed of the humidity inside. Should I see what the humidity is like outside of the incubator, then with the incubator without water, and make a judgement call from there? Apologies if you only tend to stick with wet hatching! I'm a bit of a worrier/over-planner and trying to set my eggs up for the best success I can since it's our first go around the fair with it.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Sorry I didn't address the dry/wet aspect. I was first concerned that you would delay turning which isn't a good idea. I would atore the eggs upright in the carton for about 8-12 hours which will give the air cell time to rise, and the contents settle. Then start incubation and turning right away.

Humid ambient air makes a big difference. But my preference, it to provide the humidity that results in optimal weight loss. To achieve that, I focus more on weight than humidity. Humidity varies around the world day to day, yet eggs still hatch naturally. So, it needn't be a set number in an incubator. For years, I didn't even use a hygrometer but rather a gram scale. I started measuring humidity when I finally acquired an accurate hygrometer that didn't break the bank, but it is just a guide, mostly for the lockdown period but I still focus on weight. Just as ambient humidity varies, eggs vary in their porosity. Ideally, the egg should lose 11-13% weight during the first 18 days. I shoot for an average of 0.65% average per day. It can vary widely but the goal should be for the average loss. To that end, I weigh weekly and adjust the humidity at that point of los in too great or insufficient.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

It is a good thing to worry until you know you are providing the optimal conditions. After monitoring that, you can stop worrying because you have done all you can do. From that point, you have to rely on the product you began with. There are things out of your control. I'm referring to things like breeder age, vigor and nutrition as well as the handling of the eggs before you got them. You can't change any of that at this point.

 

[newchickychick]

Sorry I didn't address the dry/wet aspect. I was first concerned that you would delay turning which isn't a good idea. I would atore the eggs upright in the carton for about 8-12 hours which will give the air cell time to rise, and the contents settle. Then start incubation and turning right away.

Humid ambient air makes a big difference. But my preference, it to provide the humidity that provides for the optimal weight loss. To achieve that, I focus more on weight than humidity. Humidity varies around the world day to day, yet eggs still hatch naturally. So, it needn't be a set number in an incubator. For years, I didn't even use a hygrometer but rather a gram scale. I started measuring humidity when I finally acquired an accurate hygrometer that didn't break the bank, but it is just a guide, mostly for the lockdown period but still focus on weight. Just as ambient humidity varies, eggs vary in their porosity. Ideally, the egg should lose 11-13% weight during the first 18 days. I shoot for an average of 0.65% average per day. It can vary widely but the goal should be for the average loss. To that end, I weigh weekly and adjust the humidity at that point of los in too great or insufficient.

I don't have anything to weigh the eggs with. I'll get right on buying something to have for when we start the eggs! Would going by air cell size be another good method? I've got a chart saved on what the air cells should look close to by every set number of days. That's really helpful to know weight is a good way to gauge!

 

[newchickychick]

It is a good thing to worry until you know you are providing the optimal conditions. After monitoring that, you can stop worrying because you have done all you can do. From that point, you have to rely on the product you began with. There are things out of your control. I'm referring to things like breeder age, vigor and nutrition as well as the handling of the eggs before you got them. You can't change any of that at this point.

Thanks so much! This puts me a lot at ease. I do think the "turning" being a rocking side to side motion should hopefully help if they're rested vertically too so the air cell wouldn't be spinning around side to side anyways. (At least, from how I picture it. Still totally new to really envisioning how it works, even as many videos as I've watched. ) I'll be doing a Hatch-Along for them. I don't know if I'll get even a single hatch since it's our first time, but hopefully will have some fuzzy results to share with you once we've given it a go.