shipping hatching eggs???

[rancher hicks]

When I came back from out of state I had paperwork from the person whose eggs I brought back but I just considered it a formality I didnt' even look at it. I'm not sure I still have it but I thought it was an NPIP thing. I did show it to the TSA people and they never really looked at it.

Here you must be NPIP certified to show and its done for free. Someone posted that there have been no cases of Pull.... in years. That it was not something to stress in the testing about.

What happens in MN is just that and may not apply to every state. Or does it? State laws do not cover every state and Federal laws do.

I haven't read my Poultry newsletter lately about a change in laws. Certainly this is something that should be written about in Back Yard Poultry magazine.

I haven't seen any law postings at the TSC or Country Max and they're selling chicks. What's up with that?

It's also something that should be posted in every Hatchery catalog and site then shouldn't it? These places sell hatching eggs too.

So mommommymamma since you brought it up perhaps you could write letters to all these venues and help us all out. I don't mean that snarky but I have other things on the agenda and taking up this fight is not one of them. The repercussions are huge to say the least.

Every auction and swap meet and small back yard holder will take a hit. Every science project in every elementary school and every 4-H club will have more work and people will just say forget it. Especially if they have to pay for all this testing. Please make sure you let the authorities know when you write them.

If we think the states have no money for the programs they have now, just think of how much they'll have for this testing program. The cost we pay for a test will not cover the cost of wages and travel expenses for testers to come to every farm and backyard coop. Heck they can't even get the USDA to test the food we have now.

Sorry but that's just how I see it.

 

[MomMommyMamma]

Quote:
I think I'll pass. As I said, I don't sell eggs and most of the eggs I use are our own birds or from locals. I've got my hands full enough with schooling our five children.
I do think it wise that people know what they are facing. No one wants a surprise letter informing them they have to pay a fine. It will most decidedly have an impact on the small flock owner & egg seller. Much more so than the larger hatcheries or feed stores selling chicks.

On a positive note, a lot has been done to change laws & ordinances to allow chickens where they were not previously allowed. With the growing popularity of backyard flocks, who knows what an organized group of small flock owners can accomplish! Perhaps these policies need not apply to small flocks. Seems like I saw on the Duck forum here that the muscovy regulations are being re-examined due to the work of vocal flock owners.

 

[destiny_56085]

I have to agree with certain points you bring up rancher...

I only bring up the MN laws as an example because its the only ones I can quote for sure. Due to having a hatchery permit and helping with a local poultry club, I have been in contact with them on a regular basis. Both my mom and brother are certified PT testors here too. Every state's laws are different and some are MUCH more stringent. The MN laws only affect the BYC crowd in respect to anyone shipping to here or receiving birds from here.

Last fall I brought this up to both the APA and ABA. I believe this is already way over our heads. We need the help of national poultry clubs to support our hobby now. Yes it has impacted our local swaps and shows already. Ex... Last year the Isanti and Zumbrota swaps were shut down because they wouldn't comply with enforcing the testing requirements. Our show numbers were also impacted last year. The one I helped with was down by about 400 birds. People weren't coming namely because of that CVI and new requirement about PT testing on waterfowl. We put in complaints and they might change some of their rules eventually. As it stands right now, they want us to follow those rules already in place or forget any future events.

Like I stated before... TSA isn't going to care about your paperwork til the BAH makes them. They have enough to worry about and its not their job to enforce them. Its not going to come back on them for letting you through. Its your responsibility as a buyer/seller to know the rules and follow them.

There was an article in the Poultry Press about it last fall... Backyard Poultry and the fluff magazines aren't going to broadcast this til it actually hits them. The hatcheries are well aware of the regulations. The big ones already undergo mandatory testing for just about everything so they don't run into snags with shipping. As a small time producer though, it isn't very cost effective to test for every disease unless you absolutely have to. Most of the people that read Backyard Poultry and the likes are the same people that buy their stock from local breeders only or their local TSC. Its mainly the exhibition breeders that have to get their stock from out of state or people that want new/rare breeds that encounter these regulations. I know I'm making a generalization here.... but seriously, how many people will fork out $65+ in shipping costs for a single adult bird? Its usually your breeders that are looking for specific stock. Otherwise they could just go pick out another $2 hatchery mass-produced chick at their closest Runnings.

 

[rancher hicks]

Well I do know for myself finding Delaware were a trial. I got four in the state as far as I know the only others are from hatcheries. I do recall reading that these laws may not affect small holders as much as commercial operations within a certain $$$$ range.

I do think that right now it's not a priority with budgets and all that going on. Unless it becomes and epidemic and I doubt it will unless it hits a large operation like commercial hatcheries or meat operation like Tyson. Small people like us are probably more diligent in out cleaning and management than some of these big corps are.

On the NY posting there is a guy I know asking to buy large quantities of hatching eggs. I just thought about that and thought perhaps he's trying to start a hatchery here. I haven't investigated it. I've bought chicks from him. CM's, back then I couldn't find them. I posted all over CL and he was the only one to answer. Same with the Delaware.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Buck Creek Chickens]

Quote:
I agree, but it all depends on the state and even the county, some are more strict then others, it whos in charge and in some cases how much money they want, plus if the state you are in has large commercial poultry businesses it more strict than those that don't, NPIP cost is a good example.

 

[destiny_56085]

Quote:
I know its just speculation, but I think the government budget cuts and such may be exactly the reason we are seeing this mess. Who's getting hurt the most by budget cuts? Government jobs.... Who employs the the people at the Board of Animal Health, the district vets, and their associated testing labs? Government... Supposedly all these rules have been in place for years and nobody has been aware of them (according to the state people at least). So who stands to gain anything by all of a sudden asking for compliance? Its a PIA for the producers and esp the small time breeders. Its a PIA for the people putting on shows and swaps. PT has not been a disease of major concern for many years because its almost non-existant. If you do get it, its going to wipe out your breeding flocks anyway. So tell me....who stands to gain from this? Maybe the goverment workers that are trying to justify the importance of their jobs so they aren't eliminated with budget cuts?

What kills me is the stuff they are asking for isn't even pertinant to diseases actually threatening us. I know there has been multiple outbreaks of AI up here....one even within 15 miles of me. So why isn't testing for AI a priority? We already know too that waterfowl are known carriers of AI.... so what sense does it make for the state of MN to say in-state waterfowl are exempt from testing for exhibition purposes only, but ones coming in from out of state have to be tested? PT testing..... I questioned the state vet and last case he knew of was 1 farm in IA about 5 years ago that had it come in with a hatchery shipment. Nothing here and yet they are adamnant about every bird getting tested for that. What about diseases like CRD or MS/MG where you can have long term carriers in your breeding flocks? Okay so there was a huge outbreak of Newcastle in SW minnesota last summer. The BAH sent out a letter telling all of us to contain our birds and be careful about exposure to wild waterfowl. So why isn't there mandatory testing for that?

 

[averytds]

This is how things read for my state.

Birds and Fowl

All poultry, except waterfowl, must show proof that they are pullorum – typhoid clean by one of the following methods.

* Originate from a NPIP certified U.S. Pullorum – Typhoid clean flock as evidenced by an official VS Form 9-3, certifying all adult poultry in the flock have had a negative test for pullorum – typhoid within the past year. (Adult poultry are any turkeys over 12 weeks of age and any other poultry over 16 weeks of age)

* Be accompanied by an official VS Form 9-3 signed by the official NPIP representative in the state of origin or by a health certificate that has been issued within the previous 90 days.

* In addition to the VS9-3 or health certificate, out of state poultry must have a "Permit to Ship Poultry or Hatching Eggs" that has been issued by the KAHD within the previous year, or a permit number that has been issued by the KAHD office within the previous 15 days.

I've always taken this to put the onus on the seller/shipper. I've purchased from NPIP sellers and even from a major hatchery I've yet to ever receive any paperwork. I had one NPIP seller offer after the fact. I have never been particularly concerned as I don't view the paperwork as much of an assurance, we quarantine and test new birds and all birds get tested on avg twice a year. I'm confident in those results and that paperwork. I've yet to receive any violation notices, so I've either got things right on my responsibilities, I haven't been flagged yet or the state is comfortable with my current testing regime.

At least for our state, I've been told all public venues (feed stores, shows, sales) are required to provide buyers with copies of the VS 9-3 or NPIP paperwork if the buyer asks for it. I've never known of anyone to ask, but I don't think anyone at the feed store would have a clue and if their shipments have been like mine, they haven't received any paperwork either. I'm sure they purchase from a big hatchery. so maybe the NPIP number and bill of sale is enough.

 

[teddiliza]

I'm really glad someone else is discussing this issue. Since I became NPIP, I learned that there are shipping requirements to and from states. The states and federal government sure do a crappy job publicizing this fact. So I've gotten a lot of people thinking I'm a total weirdo for posting only certain states should bid on my auctions. I requested an updated list from my NPIP poultry rep yesterday which lists which states require just the vs 9-3 form, and which states also require a permit. I'm in this as a hobby, and I'm not willing to pay a fine for something like shipping eggs without a permit. I will tell whoever said 'this sucks the enjoyment out of it' was darn right! It's more of a pain to ship eggs with all these regulations that just seemed to 'pop out of nowhere' that I wasn't aware of before. It's making it a lot more work and less enjoyable to share my eggies! But I'm going to make sure I do it right and do it legally anyhow. It's hard for the State's to keep up when for example, here in Missouri, they only have 3 poultry state positions for the NPIP program for the whole state, and they work their butts off! I've heard Florida only has 1 tester. How do they expect people to comply if they don't have enough state testers out there? *sigh*

 

[MomMommyMamma]

Quote:
I noticed your listing and began to ask about it because I wanted your Mille Fleur d'Uccle eggs but was not amongst your allowed states lol! Well, at least now more people are aware.

 

[PamB]

I just wanted to add that a permit is not necessarily a big deal. Here in CT, as a buyer, we have to call and get a permit when we are having eggs or birds shipped to us from out of state. It doesn't cost anything and isn't a burden to the seller. The seller does have to provide us with a VS 9-3 form or health certificates showing they are PT & AI negative. I only want to add this because I wouldn't want the word "permit" to scare a seller from selling to me here in CT. Like I said, it is something that is my responsibility as a buyer and doesn't require the seller to provide me with any more than the normal paperwork showing a clean flock.