Show Off Your Games!

[JShubin]

Regarding breeds... In my opinion... At some point they were all mixed, even the pure ones...

Gamefowl are all part of a large "closed flock" where interbreeding is common... but every so often one breeder keeps his flock isolated long enough to carve out a breed/strain that is distinct and repeatable... He adds his name to it and if it becomes popular people try to maintain that purebreed/pedigree...

I have no problem calling a breed by its name if thats where it was derived from.... If I spent my lifetime developing a specific breed, I'd hope someone who had my fowl call them by the name I gave them...

On the other hand American games are all very similar... Refering to the dogs metaphor, I wouldnt try to name out different strains of Dobermans. Doberman and German Shepherds are different enough to be distinguised, but within each breed you cannot tell who the breeder was/is. I wouldnt say I have a Mike Vick doberman unless I knew it came from him specifically. At some point someone is going to have to mix in new blood... and then what do you call it?

This topic pops up again and again on this thread.... I have been through this same conversation like 3 times at least lol.

 

[childressj]

Don't forget the grey, ceylon and green jungle fowl, recent study shows they played just as much into the "origin of the chicken" as did the red. The grey was instrumental in the origin of yellow skin genetics in chickens. Looks like even better support for multiple points of developement.

Some light reading...

Many bird species possess yellow skin and legs whereas other species have white or black skin color. Yellow or white skin is due to the presence or absence of carotenoids. The genetic basis underlying this diversity is unknown. Domestic chickens with yellow skin are homozygous for a recessive allele, and white skinned chickens carry the dominant allele. As a result, chickens represent an ideal model for analyzing genetic mechanism responsible for skin color variation. In this study we demonstrate that yellow skin is caused by regulatory mutation(s) that inhibit expression of the beta-carotene dioxygenase 2 (BCDO2) enzyme in skin, but not in other tissues. Because BCDO2 cleaves colorful carotenoids into colorless apocarotenoids, a reduction in expression of this gene produces yellow skin. This study also provides the first conclusive evidence of a hybrid origin of the domestic chicken. It has been generally assumed that the red junglefowl is the sole ancestor of the domestic chicken. A phylogenetic analysis, however, demonstrates that though the white skin allele originates from the red junglefowl, the yellow skin allele originates from a different species, most likely the grey junglefowl. This result significantly advances our understanding of chicken domestication.

Assuming the yellow skin gene was not a "regulatory mutation(s)" in domesticated descendants of the Red Jungle Fowl and can in fact be attributed to another species of Gallus, would a genetic analysis of Gallus Gallus vs. Gallus Gallus Domesticus suggest that another species "played just as much into the origin of the chicken" as Gallus Gallus? I suggest you check with the geneticists on the "Classroom at the Coop" http://www.the-coop.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm and see if you can get those folks to agree with that assertion. If as I suspect , they will confirm Gallus Gallus contributed everything EXCEPT yellow skin (which makes yellow and green shanks) then it would not be correct to say other species contributed "just as much" to domesticated fowl.

 

[roosterhavoc]

Which came first the chicken or the egg? That's the important question.

 

[childressj]

Those men put lifetimes into making a "line " and for u to say that's stretching it.

Please define "line" for us so we are all using the same definition. If you continually outcross, do you have what you call a line? Do all the chickens that come from your place or whoevers place make them a "line"? Considering how gamefowl are traditionally bred, even if you obtained a trio from a very successful breeder and the offspring all looked different would you call them a "line"? Would it matter if the cock was unrelated or related to the hens if you plan to call them a "line"? Would they need to breed true (all look alike) to be called a "line"?

 

[sdm111]

I call a line like Ruble, cecil Davis, cardinal club etc. I call a cross a cross and no they don't have to always breed true to me cause you're gonna have " throwbacks " of whatever the " line " was " infused " with to make their specific " line " And no none of my birds are my " line " cause I didn't make them.

 

[sdm111]

And continually outcross I don't do that I line breed unless someone requests a battle cross. When legal of course. Now it's just a hobby for me. Do I raise a few yeah am I a mill no. I just had access to good fowl from my previous dealings when legal, sorry.

 

[sdm111]

Has infusion happened since the line was established by people to freshen up and up vigor I'm sure it has so they didn't turn into a bunch of " special chickens " ( politically correct ) but I believe a high percentage of the original fowl is still there.

 

[sdm111]

Would it look ugly if I dubbed an adult cock? or is any age ok?
Also it'll be a lot easier if they're peacomb verses straight. Straight comb gonna be thick at the base
And one more random question... Do Geese cause problems for gamefowl, cats, dogs or crows? Are they a good addition to a small farm like I have?

 

[sdm111]

Also sorry I'm ignorant to all the technical professor big words I'm just a guy that likes fighting chickens.

 

[childressj]

Has infusion happened since the line was established by people to freshen up and up vigor I'm sure it has so they didn't turn into a bunch of " special chickens " ( politically correct ) but I believe a high percentage of the original fowl is still there.

This is just confusion between "breeder" and "breed". The names you refer to are breeders or names applied by breeders. There is no question whatsoever that cockers invariably refer to them by the breeder who had success with them but they are all the same "breed" unless you want to talk about Asils or something like that which has clearly distinguishing characteristics.