Show Off Your Games!

[flypen]

This is Bumblefoot Grey over Sid Taylor black

I have aquired a pure

bumblefoot grey hen

 

[WhitehouseFarms]

Jshubin, we have talked about my stags before, i originally had 3 stags and a wheaten hen, but i lost the hen to a preditor. I figured they were greys, just not sure of the specific info, like you said the guy i got them from got his birds from a friend of his that he prefers to keep anonymous! I dont ask too much and he doesnt tell. He knew the cock was a grey but doesnt know the strain! He is very private and doesn't talk very much. I have asked him and he just says that he doesnt know! Not very many people talk much with newbies about game birds! I think they are beautiful!! I was given 8 eggs for hatching so maybe i coulld hatch some hens for my boys, ill post a recent pic of them in a bit when I get on my computer. In a bit! Golden duckwing? Is that the specific lingo for the APA? See.. Im still learning...

 

[WhitehouseFarms]

I feel like I sound dumb when I ask these kind of questions. I know other yard bird breeds, not n expert like a lot of you are, but I am Still learning new things about them all the time too, but Im like a sponge!! Lol! Always wanting to learn and find out! Not very many will take the time out and school me in them though! I have been trying to find out what the breed specifics with greys are so I can learn more, like you said the scar seams like maybe from a pea comb, bc its not as wide as a dubbed strait comb, I didnt know that or even to look for that!

 

[Regular Guy]

Good Sunday Afternoon!

I've been reading over some threads here and other places and the times are a changing fast it seems. Let me tell you two things I know to be true. You do feel like a young person trapped in an old body, hehe, and you do wake up some mornings and feel like you're on another planet.

It seems like only a couple of years ago when me and my friend would be at the newstand on Saturday Morning buying Radio/Electronics magazines as well as "The Gamecock" and "Grit n Steal" mags. Are these magazines still in print? I guess not huh? I am a 'Regula Guy" hence my handle or screen name or whatever you call it. I have learned a lot over the years, but I could always point to to those who knew more than I ever will on 'pick any topic'. However, maybe I do have enough knowledge to lend in a limmited capacity towards helping to preserve the old games as much as possible and under the circumstanes.

Folks have been raising gamefowl around here for at least fifty years and reading back through the Histories of gamefowl I often read references to the foundations of these breeds, as some would say, "not a fur piece from here' or maybe, 'a good mile up the road'. Translation: nearby lol. Here is one example...

"By: Terry Roberts

The Gordon's was made from 2 well know strains of fowl. The first line was Warhorses. In Augusta GA, a man by the name Barney Dunbar was the wealthiest man in that part of the south. He loved game fowl very much an in bout 1850 he sent John Stone a trail of a few seasons.....Dehner Racey of Mo., got Mugs from Earl Bigger of York, S.C. in 1935, All came dark. In 1939 he bought a pure O.C. Wilson White Mug cock and crossed him over the black Bigger Mugs. From this cross came several dark blue pullets and several spangle stags, but no whites. He bred one of the spangle stags over the black hens and got about 50 per cent dark blues with lemon hackles, dark eyes and legs but still no pure Whites. These mugs are high breaking, fast shuffling cocks and Racey has won several large derbies with them".

As a "regular guy" I can't tell you the specifics of Hillary Clinton's law, as a further assault on self sustaining traditional family lifestyle and the ability for the American Farmer to make a few bucks on their gamefowl, but it seems in reading along, the restrictions of state borders may be doing far more to erradicate gamefowl than outlawing other activities. As I am becoming more aware there are folks in states that have very limmited access to obtaining gamefowl so I suspect many are breeding and crossbreeding whatever they have with no particular goal in mind. Add to that the assault on freedom of speach to even talk about gamefowl in a meaningful way (sort of like writting about Rhode Island Reds with the words "Red", "Rhode Island" "laying ability" etc., not allowed. Kids, its a sad fact that your parents and grandparents grew up in a somewhat free country) then how are the younger generations interested in preserving the breeds to learn? I would say the best plan, under the circumstances, would be to learn all you can from the information that is out there and breed 'pure' lines or if you want to make crosses, makes crosses of pure line to pure line is the best one could do.




We have an Auction Barn nearby that's been in business for 48 years and it's a pretty safe bet that the gamefowl that comes through here aren't crossed up to make lavendars or blues or whatever. However, I am seeing more oriental crosses as the cultureal demographics change that were non-exsistant ten or fifteen years ago. I go down there sometimes just to look at the chickens and talk to folks, but I'm very cautious of diseases, so I personally don't buy from auctions. I even have a special pair of auction boots specifically for that purpose. Maybe this is an option for some that don't know anyone personally to obtain fowl from? Maybe you could put on your auction boots and quarantine anything you may purchase, maybe meet the breeders?



As we are still 'poluted' with gamefowl in my area I have tended to be 'in and out' of games over the years because frankly they require a lot more effort, pens, space etc,. In fact I had originally obtained the Blacks I have with the intention of using them in a program to re-create or create an all black fibro melanistic breed. Now that I have them and have been enlightened as to the currnet state of our historical gamefowl though I am seeing the need for preservation.



I am going to skirt around some topics here because I don't want to say anything outside the rules, rather it is my intention to help preserve these living relics of traditional American life. It seems there are those that think anyone who owns these fowl or dare speak of their histories or breeding must be involved in some illegal activities.

There are sites dedicated to gamefowl with posts comming from annonymous breeders in America and mostly folks from overseas. There is much that could be learned from these forums however there is one important thing to keep in mind. These folks may be utilizing some pure American Games and often crossing them BUT THEY ARE OFTEN USING THEM FOR SOMETHING OTHER THAN WHAT THEY WERE ORIGINALLY BRED FOR. In other words you may read about what some may consider a top notch fowl and I may know folks that wouldn't consider the same fowl worth the feed. It's kind of like this...A retriever may be the ideal dog for a duck hunter but there is a reason why the are not utilized as a war dog and that is because you wouldn't want your dog to fectch a hand gernade and bring it back to you! So I would say If you have obtained some YL (yellow legged) Hatch or GL (Green Legged) Hatch from a reliable source, then google the "History of YL Hatch" and learn as much as you can about them. This will aid you in making decisions at breeding season if you plan to cross one line over another for example.

Just some Sunday afternoon thoughts. Wish everyone well good luck with your fowl and breedings in the seasons and God Bless.

 

[Lauravonsmurf]

Well I agree preservation breeding is probably a reality folks ought to considering.

I also find it problematic when you have a question about terms or a traditional practice it seems to equal in people's minds you want to do something illegal or bad to the birds, no I just want to be sure I understand something I have read or what someone has discussed. I am interested in a lot of traditional care of games both here in the USA and internationally. Some knowledge people have passed along can be used to keep ones fowl really healthy no matter what the breed. It also helps me get insight into what breeds where bred for what environments, style, and how training & equipment & local resources can be used for the birds health.

Question:
How does one choose a good hen in games? I imagine some things you want are similar to what you need in a good utility hen, you want a hen that can lay easily, probably does not molt early, does not eat eggs and is healthy... no obvious genetic flaws. But what else in general makes a good American Game hen? And what about a specific line like Hulsey or Hatch?

The roosters get all the press, but hens are 50% of your genetics & determine sex so it seems mighty important to me to have a good understanding of good points versus bad on choosing a hen.

I think I am leaning towards Pumpkin Hulseys as a line I want more info on for sure and would like to own and breed someday. So many great lines though.

 

[Regular Guy]

Well I agree preservation breeding is probably a reality folks ought to considering.

I also find it problematic when you have a question about terms or a traditional practice it seems to equal in people's minds you want to do something illegal or bad to the birds, no I just want to be sure I understand something I have read or what someone has discussed. I am interested in a lot of traditional care of games both here in the USA and internationally. Some knowledge people have passed along can be used to keep ones fowl really healthy no matter what the breed. It also helps me get insight into what breeds where bred for what environments, style, and how training & equipment & local resources can be used for the birds health.

Question:
How does one choose a good hen in games? I imagine some things you want are similar to what you need in a good utility hen, you want a hen that can lay easily, probably does not molt early, does not eat eggs and is healthy... no obvious genetic flaws. But what else in general makes a good American Game hen? And what about a specific line like Hulsey or Hatch?

The roosters get all the press, but hens are 50% of your genetics & determine sex so it seems mighty important to me to have a good understanding of good points versus bad on choosing a hen.

I think I am leaning towards Pumpkin Hulseys as a line I want more info on for sure and would like to own and breed someday. So many great lines though.

That's a very good question. I hope someone has some knowledge on this. I have always done exactly what you said, look for qood station, tail etc,. Traditionally the best way is to single mate to several hens and have the offspring properly identified and if you get exceptional birds out of one of those matings then you would want to repeate that breeding or start your line breeding or inbreeding from there. Whenever I have gotten games I got hens related to the cock. My opinion is that pure strains are line bred/inbred and have been for a long long time, so I don't see a problem with that. You can exchange chickens or eggs with someone off their yard who has the same strain from time to time and breed new blood into yours to keep inbreeding deppression from being a problem. I have bred Mother to Son and Father to Daughter and grandaughters etc. and to aunts and uncles, but always heard not to breed brother to sister unless you absolutely have too. I have also heard people say they have bred brother to sister without noticing any problems too though, but that would be my last choice. Maybe I'm wrong about this,but when I see adds for pairs and trios that state they are not related, I tend to question that. So I hope someone has more info on what to look for in a good broodhen.

 

[Lauravonsmurf]

That's a very good question. I hope someone has some knowledge on this. I have always done exactly what you said, look for qood station, tail etc,. Traditionally the best way is to single mate to several hens and have the offspring properly identified and if you get exceptional birds out of one of those matings then you would want to repeate that breeding or start your line breeding or inbreeding from there. Whenever I have gotten games I got hens related to the cock. My opinion is that pure strains are line bred/inbred and have been for a long long time, so I don't see a problem with that. You can exchange chickens or eggs with someone off their yard who has the same strain from time to time and breed new blood into yours to keep inbreeding deppression from being a problem. I have bred Mother to Son and Father to Daughter and grandaughters etc. and to aunts and uncles, but always heard not to breed brother to sister unless you absolutely have too. I have also heard people say they have bred brother to sister without noticing any problems too though, but that would be my last choice. Maybe I'm wrong about this,but when I see adds for pairs and trios that state they are not related, I tend to question that. So I hope someone has more info on what to look for in a good broodhen.

I can see that back breeding might help you to determine some recessive genes in a line or make sure co-dominate genes are all present in a high %, but then it seems like some testing out crossing would need to be done if you where unsure about certain genetics as well to try and get those to express to confirm a genetic question. I am still slogging through all the genetic stuff out on the net, so that is probably confusing me a bit. I can see the value in the various inbreeding schemes... especially for line purity reasons. I do wonder at some adds too.

I read someone did extreme inbreeding with Leghorns for 12 years and the birds developed the porcupine feather mutation, so there is a magic inbred line when the mutations start appearing in flocks. I tried to find photos of that line of birds but could not. The flock ended up in the hands of the US Gov. Poultry research folks and I am unsure if they still are maintaining it as that was a long while back.

After reading up on hens in general I am thinking breeding of hens should not be rushed.

 

[maranfarmer563]

I read,the hen is the breed and the cock is the final product

 

[Lauravonsmurf]

I read,the hen is the breed and the cock is the final product

Do you mean: the hens are for breeding and a good cock is the result

Or

Do you mean: The hen lines should be pure bred in both the cock and hen and then cross

 

[JShubin]

Well I agree preservation breeding is probably a reality folks ought to considering.

I also find it problematic when you have a question about terms or a traditional practice it seems to equal in people's minds you want to do something illegal or bad to the birds, no I just want to be sure I understand something I have read or what someone has discussed. I am interested in a lot of traditional care of games both here in the USA and internationally. Some knowledge people have passed along can be used to keep ones fowl really healthy no matter what the breed. It also helps me get insight into what breeds where bred for what environments, style, and how training & equipment & local resources can be used for the birds health.

Question:
How does one choose a good hen in games? I imagine some things you want are similar to what you need in a good utility hen, you want a hen that can lay easily, probably does not molt early, does not eat eggs and is healthy... no obvious genetic flaws. But what else in general makes a good American Game hen? And what about a specific line like Hulsey or Hatch?

The roosters get all the press, but hens are 50% of your genetics & determine sex so it seems mighty important to me to have a good understanding of good points versus bad on choosing a hen.

I think I am leaning towards Pumpkin Hulseys as a line I want more info on for sure and would like to own and breed someday. So many great lines though.

I dont have many specific methods for selecting best hens, I typically use my intuition because a good hen will stand out amongst her peers.. Often times a cock will follow a good hen around because he knows that she is good quality.

Obviously health, performance and conformation is first and foremost when selecting broodfowl.

~You'd want to look for any specific traits you'd want to keep... (comb type, color, leg length, etc) but this all depends on your "goal".
~Size is big deal for me. If I want to breed broodfowl I go with bigger, heavier hens. If I want show or medium sized fowl I go with smaller (but fiestier) hen.
~Dominance is also a big deal for me. When you have a bunch of pullets running around, look for the one that is dominant. A good pullet will also "play fight" with young stags, or try to fight other through the fence.
~Activity... This test is weird but I do this for both stags and pullets... When you throw out treats to a free range flock of youngsters, look for the stag or pullet who gets to the food first. The crazy one that will die trying to get the treat before any other... This is an indicator of how active and "focused" a stag/pullet is.

Once they are fully matured hens look for egg production, broodiness and protective instincts. A good hen should have a big diet and should be actively foraging for worms and stuff (if free range). Noisy hens also are a good indicator of dominance. I also like spurred and double spurred hens.