I got my first birds from an old cocker , they were the old gooduns , he had connections all over the U.S. , Guam , phillipines everywhere but he past away and his sons didn't take care of them so there all gone now . They were mostly , madigan claret , mclain hatch , warhorse , joe goode greys , laws greys , kelso,white hackle and a lot of home brews .He would let me raise em and would buy stags from me out of his birds , and after a while just let me make my own crosses . He was an odd man but very succesful at what he did .