Show Off Your Games!

[centrarchid]

Illia,

Thanks for the clarification. Anyone have crow-winged games? Does crow-winged mean same as cuckoo where barring operates only one extended black or is cuckoo different yet again? As I understand terms, American doms are of the cuckoo variety. Color genetics are not my cup of tea, give mean quantitative genetics any day.

Jim

 

[Illia]

Cuckoo usually refers to poor barring. For example, a Plymouth rock is "barred" a cuckoo Marans is "cuckoo" - the barring is smudged. I do believe Dominques can be considered Cuckoo, but I'm not 100% sure.

Most colors that are a cross of "dom" (barring) and another color smudges the barring, thus making it "cuckoo." My Shamo stag would be considered cuckoo, not barred. (although he is barred, I just call it cuckoo to clarify the type/quality of barring) Especially notice the chest in that the feathers have more lacing than barring.

Crowwing is also called Brown-Red and Birchen, to better clarify.

Both Cuckoo and normal "Barred" coloring share the same genetics, and in both the barring should show on all the feathers. (neck, breast, back, saddle, tail, etc)

If a bird were to show only barring in certain areas or "diluted" barring like some of my Araucanas, I'd consider it partial or diluted cuckoo. Not sure what others would call it though.

 

[centrarchid]

The way it reads, the barring gene interacts with some other gene(s) to make for reduced contrast between normal and diluted coloration of feathers to generate cuckoo.

What I have gathered from other readings, the extreme contrast like with barred rocks seems to involve a gene that slows feather development rate increasing differences between light and dark regions of a feather. Some of my show dominiques have same slow feathering gene (likely from introduced barred rock) but barring still not as distinct as with barred rock. Another gene must be involved. I do not like the slow feathering gene, makes for poor fliers and feathers that do not seem to shed water well.

Whatever is going on, want barring played out over entended black only, no browns or reds. Very much like to explore the genes associated with causing white to show up in tails of males. Mining the relatively huge genetic reservoir offered by games may enable this option.

 

[Greybear23]

So what you are saying is if I want to improve the color on my Doms I can breed my hens to a Golden Duckwing colored cock and or breed my Dom cock to some golden duckwing hens???? I would like to keep them pure game but would also like to improve the color on them so that some day I can show them , I have considered crossing in some Crele Old English to improve them but would rather go the long way and keep the gameness in them. I to have ask the question of the white in the tail. Any ideas how to breed that out? Will it come out by breeding to Duckwing? Thanks, Lynn

Quote:
Genetically speaking -

Dom is simply just barred. It derives from the Dominique, which is a solid barred bird. (extended black and barred genes)

Crele is barred duckwing. It is a duckwing colored bird (the black and gold males, the colorful brown females) with barring.

And then, there's also other "dom" varieties, like in Greybear23's avatar, which are "Dom" (barred) Crowwing. The difference between these and Creles is that Crele is based on Duckwing, and the males have an orange coloring in their wing feathers. The crowwings do not - It is simply a black barring.

If they were not barred, you'd see a clear difference in the females. A crowwing would be black with a colored head, a Duckwing would be brown or silver penciled with a salmon/red breast and black and white/gold head and neck.

And even further, there's barred Wheaten, like my Shamos, in which the males look almost identical to a Crele, but the females are a "dom" Wheaten.

 

[Greybear23]

centrachid I see you raise California Greys, did you get a start from a hatchery or did you cross them yourself or what, I am interested in some of them, maybe this spring if you have chicks I can buy a few trios off you, do you ship??? Lynn

 

[donnie]

Quote:
Genetically speaking -

Dom is simply just barred. It derives from the Dominique, which is a solid barred bird. (extended black and barred genes)

Crele is barred duckwing. It is a duckwing colored bird (the black and gold males, the colorful brown females) with barring.

And then, there's also other "dom" varieties, like in Greybear23's avatar, which are "Dom" (barred) Crowwing. The difference between these and Creles is that Crele is based on Duckwing, and the males have an orange coloring in their wing feathers. The crowwings do not - It is simply a black barring.

If they were not barred, you'd see a clear difference in the females. A crowwing would be black with a colored head, a Duckwing would be brown or silver penciled with a salmon/red breast and black and white/gold head and neck.

And even further, there's barred Wheaten, like my Shamos, in which the males look almost identical to a Crele, but the females are a "dom" Wheaten.


hmmm my uncle always bred his doms to his hatch hens to darken the coloring , and i know with the oegb that you can breed the bbr hens with a barred roo and get crele pattern .... most games are not '' pure '' to my knowledge like the kelso is a 5 way cross ... but i guess you were meaning pure as in not breeding back to a dominique

 

[Greybear23]

Hi Donnie, will see you Saturday at Shawnee, what I mean is I want them to stay game as in Fighting type game and not like Old English show type games except for the color!!! Now is everyone confused here???!!! LOL have a good night all, Lynn

Quote:

hmmm my uncle always bred his doms to his hatch hens to darken the coloring , and i know with the oegb that you can breed the bbr hens with a barred roo and get crele pattern .... most games are not '' pure '' to my knowledge like the kelso is a 5 way cross ... but i guess you were meaning pure as in not breeding back to a dominique

 

[donnie]

Quote:
hmmm my uncle always bred his doms to his hatch hens to darken the coloring , and i know with the oegb that you can breed the bbr hens with a barred roo and get crele pattern .... most games are not '' pure '' to my knowledge like the kelso is a 5 way cross ... but i guess you were meaning pure as in not breeding back to a dominique


oooo ok now i see what you were saying lol , see ya sat . lynn

 

[Illia]

Quote:
I'm not sure duckwing would help or not. Both Duckwing and Wheaten tend to have the white cottonball issue if that's what you're talking about. If you're referring to the white fluff, that's a tricky one to breed out. If you're referring to white color in the feather itself, that's a little easier.

Yes, breeding duckwing to dom birds makes the Crele you're looking for. If you want crele, you want a cock with gold/orange only in the hackles, saddle, and also in the secondary feathers, making a triangular shape when the wing is folded. The rest should be a normal black barring. (and the iridescent green just above the triangle on the wing)


Quote:
If you want to get a solid barred bird, no color in there, then breed your colored (or, least colored) barred birds to a black, blue, or white. This will give a 50% or 100% offspring that are barred, but with less color. Take the barred of those and breed to a solid blue, black, or white again. (only recessive white though, otherwise you're just going to make whites) Since barring is so dominant, you're still going to get a 50% offspring in the next generation of solid barring.

 

[ddroland]