show quality speckled sussex ??

[snowbird]

I was outside this morning taking care of the birds... AND... I was thinking about showing birds in the future.

What I started wondering is HOW do the judges know an 11 month old cockerel from a 13 month old cock?

I believe in playing by the rules, but I know not everyone else believes this. I was wondering what would stop someone from entering their cock in the cockerel division.

Since this is the SHOW QUALITY THREAD... I thought this would be OK to discuss here.
Since the SS that I have seen are running on the small side, I am concerned that someone more concerned with the ribbon than the real competition might try to place an older, smaller cock into the cockerel division.... Same thing with the hens being placed in the pullet division.

Lisa, will comment about the above and will make the reply kinda short as these can get out of control. Will state up front when I was showing 100 or more fowl a few year ago I never showed a bird I didn't think had a chance to win.

For the age it is more an ethics thing involved as far as I am concerned. There is no way anyone can tell age difference in a bird that is 11 months and one that is 13 months. I have seen 15 months old Brahma large fowl marked down for being in the young fowl class and no one complained.
For one thing the young fowl and the old fowl have a different body structure.

I never had master breeder points as I was never a continously member of either Group, just my personal preference.

 

[math ace]

I prefaced my question because I know there are folks like you and me who want to win only if we truly earned it... BUT I know others do nasty things just to win.

For instance, folk will pull feathers of wrong color, BUT Walt has said that a judge will know.

When my husband and I were talking about this, his first response was that SPURS would set the birds apart. I told him that it wouldn't separate birds that are only a few months difference in age.

Your last two comments are interesting. Perhaps, you could share more about either....

1.) How are young and old fowl different in body structure? At what age do you see those differences?

2.) What are MASTER BREEDER points? Why are they important? What do you mean "never a continuous member of either group?

 

[fowlman01]

I prefaced my question because I know there are folks like you and me who want to win only if we truly earned it... BUT I know others do nasty things just to win.

For instance, folk will pull feathers of wrong color, BUT Walt has said that a judge will know.

When my husband and I were talking about this, his first response was that SPURS would set the birds apart. I told him that it wouldn't separate birds that are only a few months difference in age.

Your last two comments are interesting. Perhaps, you could share more about either....

1.) How are young and old fowl different in body structure? At what age do you see those differences?

2.) What are MASTER BREEDER points? Why are they important? What do you mean "never a continuous member of either group?

A judge will know if the feathers are pulled from the wing, tail or other important area. A judge can only guess about the age of a bird. It is not that big of a thing. They should be entered correctly, but other than a first place, it will not make much difference. It has to beat the other 3 classes to win best of variety or higher.

Spurs can grow at many different speeds. Short spurs are not always an indication that the bird is young, nor long spurs an indication that the bird is old. usually that is true, but three are exceptions. Lying about an birds age is not going to give much advantage overall.

They have master exhibitor.......points for all breeds shown until a total of 100 points is attained.

Master Breeder...points for only one variety of one breed count. 100 points in the APA or 20 starred wins in the ABA (beat 100 or more birds for 1 starred win). The ABA/APA yearbooks have the requirements. You are not going to achieve any of this just by lying about a birds age.

Points are not important to all exhibitors. Some like to get them and some don't care one way or another. Points at the master breeder level are usually an indication of how good the persons flock is in that particular breed.

Walt

 

[snowbird]

I prefaced my question because I know there are folks like you and me who want to win only if we truly earned it... BUT I know others do nasty things just to win.

For instance, folk will pull feathers of wrong color, BUT Walt has said that a judge will know.

When my husband and I were talking about this, his first response was that SPURS would set the birds apart. I told him that it wouldn't separate birds that are only a few months difference in age.

Your last two comments are interesting. Perhaps, you could share more about either....

1.) How are young and old fowl different in body structure? At what age do you see those differences?

2.) What are MASTER BREEDER points? Why are they important? What do you mean "never a continuous member of either group?

Lisa, the Master breeder award you must continue to be a Club member for the points to accumulate.

There is a reason why the cock and the cockeral have a different weigh listed catch up one of the cock birds and run your hands from front to back bottom and top and do the same thing to the young male. The old male will have more muscle mass if well taken care of daily and this goes for the females.

You can't go by the spurs as most exhibitors will cut them as a courtisy to the Judge, I hate to see a male in a show with long spurs. Goes back to my Gamebird training I would think.

 

[snowbird]

If anyone plans on showing fowl in the future the first thing that must be done is get a copy of the APA SOP. There is no way you can show fowl and win without a copy of the SOP so you can look at it every chance you get. There are very few Judges that know more about a breed than a good breeder does. Buy a couple of the large fowl show cages and have your own show. Write down everything you like and also everything you do not like. The more you handle the fowl the better they will show.

The most important opinion on your Fowl will always be your own if you study and know what the SOP really says. Read the front of the SOP over and over. Go to some shows before you decide if you want to be involved in showing. You will realize real quick the Judge you want to judge your fowl. In the larger shows you will know before hand who will judge the different breeds. I like this because money is hard to come by and would like to spend mine having a judge I like look at my Fowl.

One other thing the larger the show does not always equal better fowl as some of the smaller local shows have local breeders with some really good fowl. Myself I would rather show against the best there are to be found. Competition is the name of the game for me. Thats the reason I show at Columbus, Connersville and Lucasville.

 

[fowlman01]

If anyone plans on showing fowl in the future the first thing that must be done is get a copy of the APA SOP. There is no way you can show fowl and win without a copy of the SOP so you can look at it every chance you get. There are very few Judges that know more about a breed than a good breeder does. Buy a couple of the large fowl show cages and have your own show. Write down everything you like and also everything you do not like. The more you handle the fowl the better they will show.

The most important opinion on your Fowl will always be your own if you study and know what the SOP really says. Read the front of the SOP over and over. Go to some shows before you decide if you want to be involved in showing. You will realize real quick the Judge you want to judge your fowl. In the larger shows you will know before hand who will judge the different breeds. I like this because money is hard to come by and would like to spend mine having a judge I like look at my Fowl.

One other thing the larger the show does not always equal better fowl as some of the smaller local shows have local breeders with some really good fowl. Myself I would rather show against the best there are to be found. Competition is the name of the game for me. Thats the reason I show at Columbus, Connersville and Lucasville.

Good info Don.

Some small shows are populated by master breeders that happen to live in the near area. At one time in the 80's here in Sonoma County CA, the local fair, which only had about 300 birds, had entries from 5 of the top breeders in the APA/ABA at that time. Small show, but very difficult to do well in it.

Walt

 

[math ace]

THANK YOU gentlemen for providing those tips.

Don, it makes sense what you said about picking the shows you attend by who might be judging them. I have attended a few shows already as a visitor only. Each time I attend one, I take a ton of photos. I consider shows an excellent opportunity to learn more about the breeds. It has been pricey for us to travel just to watch. I would, absolutely, want to make sure my money wasn't wasted by traveling to a show that I didn't like the judge at. In fact, part of the reason I would like to show is to get that EXTRA bit of feed back from a judge.

Speaking of showing birds, do you gentlemen have any tips on the best way to travel with the birds?

Do you think showing is harder on the female or male birds? I wonder how many roosters return home with meek voices after they have crowed their heads off for the weekend

 

[snowbird]

THANK YOU gentlemen for providing those tips.

Don, it makes sense what you said about picking the shows you attend by who might be judging them. I have attended a few shows already as a visitor only. Each time I attend one, I take a ton of photos. I consider shows an excellent opportunity to learn more about the breeds. It has been pricey for us to travel just to watch. I would, absolutely, want to make sure my money wasn't wasted by traveling to a show that I didn't like the judge at. In fact, part of the reason I would like to show is to get that EXTRA bit of feed back from a judge.

Speaking of showing birds, do you gentlemen have any tips on the best way to travel with the birds?

Do you think showing is harder on the female or male birds? I wonder how many roosters return home with meek voices after they have crowed their heads off for the weekend

Lisa, One of my few skills is building Show Carry box for fowl. That is something I believe your Husband could be talked into building. Lisa, go to my profile page and I have some pictures of bantam carry boxes. A man down south copied these and sales them all over.

 

[math ace]

Really Nice craftsmanship here Don. I must say, I am duly impressed!

What is the theory here - - - A dark place keeps the bird calm during travel?

It looks like feed, water, and pick up the bird from above?

What is the process... Start putting the birds in the cage a couple of weeks before you want to go to the show? Start with a hour a day and increase the time or start with putting them in it at night and letting them out in the morning?

How do you clean it out after the bird has soiled in it?

Is this a two bird holder or one bird only?

 

[Clucksworth]

I hatched this bird about 8 months ago from my small group of SS, she doesn't have any white wing feathers and I thought she had quite good colouring. Is she good enough to be show quality?