show quality speckled sussex ??

[math ace]

Hi Lisa, I guess what really gripes me most is going to the shows and seeing the Super strains of SS and most have white wing and tail feathers. They will not try and upgrade as long as they are winning. The SOP is there for us to try and breed as much as we can to to the words wrote there. For the past 20 years the quality of the SS has gradually went backward as the few breeders are winning and see no need to improve.

Will try and hatch a few SS this fall and see what I can do with improving the quality a little. The SS I see at shows look for like Leghorns when it comes to type. I remember the good type and overall good Sussex. The only way to really improve any breed is raise large numbers starting off with the best you can find. Cull most of the young and I do not mean sell them to someone else as show fowl.

With the Sussex at this point in the game I would not worry about what line they were. The most important thing is single mate everything until you are getting a few acceptable young fowl. Basically you are starting at ground zero.

Well Said, Don!

How's the battle going with APA and getting the standard for the SS large fowl updated?
I totally get that your pet peeve is the white wing and tail feathers. My pet peeve is how undersized the SS are.
I think part of the problem is that we "newbies" haven't seen the SS with good type and coloring that you have.
I do know that when I see the other varieties of Sussex at the shows, I KNOW that the SS has a long way to go to compete with them.

I would love to see you throw your hat in the ring when it comes to the SS. You've done an excellent job of mentoring us on this thread.
It would be a blessing to see you join us in the challenge of producing some SQ SS.

Since you have been around the show circuit for so long, can you think of any reason the SS have fallen behind the other Sussex Varieties?

 

[snowbird]

Well Said, Don!

How's the battle going with APA and getting the standard for the SS large fowl updated?
I totally get that your pet peeve is the white wing and tail feathers. My pet peeve is how undersized the SS are.
I think part of the problem is that we "newbies" haven't seen the SS with good type and coloring that you have.
I do know that when I see the other varieties of Sussex at the shows, I KNOW that the SS has a long way to go to compete with them.

I would love to see you throw your hat in the ring when it comes to the SS. You've done an excellent job of mentoring us on this thread.
It would be a blessing to see you join us in the challenge of producing some SQ SS.

Since you have been around the show circuit for so long, can you think of any reason the SS have fallen behind the other Sussex Varieties?

Lisa, the SS have drop in quality because the few breeder that are showing have forgot about what a SS is supposed to look like. This is a perfect example of what happens when someone is always winning at the shows, they become color blind. We are supposed to be breeding to a SOP in the first place, for some as long as they are winning there is no need to try and improve their SS.

Have not heard anything from APA in a couple of weeks on the SOP updates. What I have heard has been good so far though.

 

[Pozees]

Lisa, the SS have drop in quality because the few breeder that are showing have forgot about what a SS is supposed to look like. This is a perfect example of what happens when someone is always winning at the shows, they become color blind. We are supposed to be breeding to a SOP in the first place, for some as long as they are winning there is no need to try and improve their SS.

Have not heard anything from APA in a couple of weeks on the SOP updates. What I have heard has been good so far though.

What are the updates?

 

[props88]

Here are some pics. I understand these are not show quality chickens but I am trying to practice my "judging" and looking for things mentioned on this thread and in the SOP.

They are 22 weeks old.

I do not have the weights for the birds but will post them if anyone is interested when I have them.

Comment on anything good or bad you see. Already to my untrained eye I can pick out the longer backs and more rectangular shapes of some of the pullets vs others. All the tails are pinched vertically but I understand they may open up as they mature.There looks to be too much white in all of them to me and there are white primary wing feathers on a few. I started a notebook and will grab some better pics when I have a helper with me.

In particular look at the combs and let me know what you see. That is one area of the standard I am having trouble understanding.


All are welcome to comment on these pics. You won't hurt my feelings.

 

[props88]

 

[snowbird]

What are the updates?

I just asked to have the SOP unified to read like the Bantam SOP. There are a couple things left out of the APA SOP that should be included.

 

[snowbird]

Here are some pics. I understand these are not show quality chickens but I am trying to practice my "judging" and looking for things mentioned on this thread and in the SOP.

They are 22 weeks old.

I do not have the weights for the birds but will post them if anyone is interested when I have them.

Comment on anything good or bad you see. Already to my untrained eye I can pick out the longer backs and more rectangular shapes of some of the pullets vs others. All the tails are pinched vertically but I understand they may open up as they mature.There looks to be too much white in all of them to me and there are white primary wing feathers on a few. I started a notebook and will grab some better pics when I have a helper with me.

In particular look at the combs and let me know what you see. That is one area of the standard I am having trouble understanding.


All are welcome to comment on these pics. You won't hurt my feelings.

First thing is see is the white in wing and tail

The female have pinched tails because the width of their back tapers off drastically about half way back.

One good thing about all the white spangles is they are not big globs of white. The white spanglas should have the black bar on the inner side of the spangle.

To improve the tail openness you need to find a big Bushy tail male that has a nice open tail. Using the big open tail male is the correct way to improve the tail width.

Some of the female seem to have a cushion at the point of the break from the back to the tail.

I would like to see some weights of some of these if possible.

 

[props88]

Thank you Don!


"Some of the female seem to have a cushion at the point of the break from the back to the tail."

I am not sure what this means. Could you please explain what you are referring to?


"To improve the tail openness you need to find a big Bushy tail male that has a nice open tail. Using the big open tail male is the correct way to improve the tail width."

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Thanks for letting me know how to fix the pinched tails! [/FONT]I like our cockerel Cody as far as body shape and I think the comb is good, but he has a bit of a pinched/squirrel tail as well so he won't be any help!

I will have the weights soon.

When I look at some of the pictures of chickens closer to the SOP, I see mine are a bit lacking in the color department!

About half the hens (4 of 8) have the drastic taper and lighter body weight. Of the remaining four, 2 have a square shape and 2 have the better rectangular shape with the longer ( closer to the SOP) back.

I will see if I can get some better pictures when I weigh them and also a better idea of which ones don't have white wing/tail feathers.

Thanks again for the feedback.

-Pete

 

[Hoosierchickens]

I just caught up with this thread. I've been lurking for a good while and soaking up all the great info. Boy have I learned a ton. I jumped in feet first a few years ago raising poultry and chose the SS breed due to it's disposition and beauty. I also liked the idea of trying to revive a heritage breed and the challenges involved. I have to admit that I had no idea how difficult it was really going to be but I'm still all in. Like many, I made the newbie mistake of purchasing hatchery quality birds. This thread has been invaluable in assessing the quality of what I have. Needless to say, none of my stock are breeding stock. I am in the process of re-homing most of them. Over the last few days I did hatch out 5 SS chicks from "show quality" stock. We will see. Nest Spring I hope to get more show quality eggs from a reputable breeder.

I have a quick question for the more experienced folks: Is it possible to make any preliminary determinations in type from newly hatched chicks? I realize you can't make any final decisions with the exception of obvious DQ's until the bird develops but are there things to look for like width of head and body, etc? The reason I ask is that one of my chicks that I believe is a hen is very stout and overall larger with a wider head compared to the other four chicks.

 

[math ace]

I have a quick question for the more experienced folks: Is it possible to make any preliminary determinations in type from newly hatched chicks? I realize you can't make any final decisions with the exception of obvious DQ's until the bird develops but are there things to look for like width of head and body, etc? The reason I ask is that one of my chicks that I believe is a hen is very stout and overall larger with a wider head compared to the other four chicks.

I really don't think you can make any decisions about the chicks while they are tiny.
Perhaps, once you have hatched and raised enough chicks from the same stock, you will be able to cull earlier.
There is something to be said about knowing what each mating pair throws or what faults tend to run in your lines.
This takes time to determine... It takes raising a lot of chicks...