show quality speckled sussex ??

[Arielle]

There is one issue with the typiest male. He's also the smallest of the cockerels. I'm not sure if it's genetic or if it's due to being the lowest in the cockerel pecking order? It could be a little of both. I'm taking the 2 cockerels to a sanctioned show to do the selection and see if my reasoning matches up with the judges. Why is there no photoshop option on chickens...ugh.

Don Shreider told me to disregard size if all else is good. Many reasons for a bird to be small. Like pecking order, as you mentioned.

 

[snowbird]

Quote: Arielle, This is the reason for keeping a sharp axe close by. There is no reason for keeping a bird that is small regardless of the reasoning. This is the reason you see all the half size SS around because someone put out this kind of info.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: Arielle, This is the reason for keeping a sharp axe close by. There is no reason for keeping a bird that is small regardless of the reasoning. This is the reason you see all the half size SS around because someone put out this kind of info.

Hi Snowbird!!

IMO the selection would need to go one step futher. Track the offspring and look for a trend in size. From reading the ALBC thread Schrider made a 1 pound increase in body weightof the buckeyes by 16 weeks, in the males I"m assuming. I would think an overall selection of larger frame and heavier muscling would move the population to increase these features.

I also think managing a very small population is more difficult to make progress.Can be done but it is slower.

 

[rachmickmurphy]

All this is extremely informative and great reading thanks everyone

 

[snowbird]

Quote: Arielle, This is the reason for keeping a sharp axe close by. There is no reason for keeping a bird that is small regardless of the reasoning. This is the reason you see all the half size SS around because someone put out this kind of info.

Hi Snowbird!!

IMO the selection would need to go one step futher. Track the offspring and look for a trend in size. From reading the ALBC thread Schrider made a 1 pound increase in body weightof the buckeyes by 16 weeks, in the males I"m assuming. I would think an overall selection of larger frame and heavier muscling would move the population to increase these features.

I also think managing a very small population is more difficult to make progress.Can be done but it is slower.
Arielle, Schrider's reasoning open up a whole nother can of worms that I do not think anyone wants to open with the SS. Breed them big and to the APA SOP and do not worry about all this other stuff. There is a minimum weight in the SOP for a reason

 

[Arielle]

Oh I"m all for getting the size and muscling up on the SS!! Maybe straighforward selecting only the biggest is the best route for the SS-- you are still lightyears ahead of me Snowbird.

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

Hi Snowbird!!

IMO the selection would need to go one step futher. Track the offspring and look for a trend in size. From reading the ALBC thread Schrider made a 1 pound increase in body weightof the buckeyes by 16 weeks, in the males I"m assuming. I would think an overall selection of larger frame and heavier muscling would move the population to increase these features.

I also think managing a very small population is more difficult to make progress.Can be done but it is slower.

See, to me, this would seem a huge step back. If the size is already there and you have a male that has the size, but lacks a little in type that a female could correct or at least balance, I see no reason to keep a small bird for breeding. I know I relate everything back to a Langshan, but if I had a very typey male but he was small, he'd still be a cull. Why? His frame isn't what I need or want in my flock. I need large framed birds if I'm going to continue getting large framed offspring. I could just be prejudiced on it, but there's a fine line that has to be walked when selecting for size. Too big and you'll have too large of birds that may win because of their size, but don't match the standard. Too small and the judge won't even give a look at your birds and, in my opinion, are breeding birds that don't match the "dual-purpose" breeding, even if they are bantams.

All this being said, only choosing the largest birds isn't going to get you anywhere. You'll wind up with big birds that lack proper wing carriage, heads or, my least concern, coloring. It's why I'm culling the males that obviously have the poor wing carriage first. I don't want that in my lines and I just won't deal with "Oh this one has weak wings, so I'll put it with a male with strong wings." No...I just won't have the issue at all and be done with it. Someone else is more than welcome to work with it and clear it up later on, but why choose something that will only cause headaches later on? My biggest worry at this point is the tail angle. They all seem to have nice width of back but the tails are a bit low on all my cockerels. The hens are a bit better, but I feel as though the cockerels need a little more angulation to their tails.

Just some observations and me trying to reason with myself. I suppose I will just have to wait until Shawnee when all will be developed and hopefully I'll have a few pairs to send out into the world.

 

[math ace]

Thank you! The first bird will be a cull. Opened up his wings and found weak wings so bad they bordered on split. I like his comb better than any other bird...of course! Not going to risk the integrity of the wings for a pretty comb.

I must apologize that it has taken me so long to join in the conversation...

First, as far as temperament goes.... I am speaking from personal experience.... USE your favorite TYPE bird and ignore the personality. Hatch a crap load of chicks! Then select a son with the type you want AND a better personality It can be done.

Second, SIZE... Do NOT ignore Size. I agree 100% with the concept that Type and Size must balance each other. You can not BLINDLY choose the largest bird nor can you select the best type bird while ignoring size. SIZE is part of type...

Third, Critique.... All the photos show males with low wing carriage. Was there a reason for it - like extreme heat?
I can not tell anything about type or color from the photos so I can not make any other comments.

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

The only reason for the poor wing carriage is #1 several have it and #2 They were just moved to the other cages. The largest male has the best wing carriage.

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

One important thing I noticed while transporting birds. The smaller male has a weak wing as well as under color on his hackle that is white. That is enough for me to negate him as a breeding bird. Why use him when I have other birds with the correct under color, better wings and better size. I will keep another extra male, the one I have a "feeling" about. And the larger cockerel with better wing carriage and wings overall.

I am adamant about not having tails that are pinched, squatty and weak wings. There is enough of that out there ready and I won't allow it in my flock, even if the other bird "looks" nicer, he has traits that I feel would weaken my flock in the long run.