Shrink Wrap help

Discussion in 'Incubating & Hatching Eggs' started by Jackson55, Dec 22, 2012.

  1. Jackson55

    Jackson55 Out Of The Brooder

    13
    0
    22
    Dec 21, 2012
    Texas
    I'm not exactly sure if my egg is shrink wrapped but if it was, I would like to know if a shrink wrapped egg could hatch. I think mine is because the egg wobbles a lot, doesn't peep, and it's 3 days past day 21.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2012
  2. speckledhen

    speckledhen Intentional Solitude Premium Member

    If it's that far past due date, what may be the case is the chick is malformed in some way, internally or externally, and should not hatch. Could be it grew too large for the egg, which can happen if it is too weak, positioned badly, yet keeps on growing. In those cases, again, best to let it go and not hatch. Folks tend to help way too much and regret it.

    The term "shrink-wrapped" is used too often. A membrane, any part of it exposed to air, may appear dry, yet, inside the egg, it may be perfectly moist. When a chick has opened the egg and is taking too long to hatch, sometimes over 24 hours, air getting into the pipped hole can cause some membrane to dry out, especially if it is directly under the fan in the bator. Again, the reason it is taking too long to hatch is often that the chick has some weakness which makes it inadvisable to allow it to hatch at all anyway.
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. Toast n Jelly

    Toast n Jelly Chillin' With My Peeps

    2,760
    41
    238
    Jan 29, 2007
    St.Charles, QC
    Candle the egg to see if the chick is through to the air cell and poke a little hole in the cell where her beak is. If you see that she is struggling open the shell up a bit more while making sure that you raise the humidity and wet a cloth and dab the wrapping to keep it moist. Help as much as you can to free her but do not force her out of the shell if you can see the yolk as this needs to be gone before she's out.

    No harm in trying as she'll die one way or the other but might make it if you don't let her get too weak. 2 days over 21 is a lot of energy lost.

    Editing to add that incubating is not a natural way like having them under a mom.Losing chicks can be because we open the incubator to remove others and let the humidity out or commit some other human error.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2012
  4. Jackson55

    Jackson55 Out Of The Brooder

    13
    0
    22
    Dec 21, 2012
    Texas
    Well I do think they'll hatch because I candled them before lockdown and they didn't appear to be malformed or to big. They do occasionally make noises, and I think I hear like 4 or so peeps a day. All humidity and heat are fine, and I rotated them. Its my first egg and I'm not ready to give up on my little ancona's
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Jackson55

    Jackson55 Out Of The Brooder

    13
    0
    22
    Dec 21, 2012
    Texas
    Will it die if I candle it? I only have 2 eggs and I don't want to lose one...
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2012
  6. Toast n Jelly

    Toast n Jelly Chillin' With My Peeps

    2,760
    41
    238
    Jan 29, 2007
    St.Charles, QC
    No, just be careful carrying the egg.
     
  7. Jackson55

    Jackson55 Out Of The Brooder

    13
    0
    22
    Dec 21, 2012
    Texas
    Ok so I did this and the egg cracked and a fetus came out. I am surprised because its day 23 and a fetus came out. During candling this egg looked much different then my other and when the fetus came out it was in ugly yellow water. It was weird. I'm leaving the other alone because I think my problem was they developed late. Also this egg wobbles more than the other did. I raised the humidity a lot since this. It's my last egg and I want it to live.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2012
  8. Sally Sunshine

    Sally Sunshine Cattywampus Angel <straightens Halo> Premium Member

    55,602
    5,166
    626
    Aug 23, 2012
    Pennsylvania
    My Coop
    IT was an early death..... what I suggest for the rest


    I would candle and look for that internal pip, also tap tap and see if you hear a chirp! if no internal pip and its moving put her back in the bator and wait!



    IF NONE of the above... float test for viability.. see links below


    IF internal pip or you HEAR it chirping..... I would assist the hatch.... https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/hatching-eggs-101

    here is a paste from that article of my notes all thrown in there....

    INTERNAL PIP ON CANDLE
    [​IMG]

    After 21 days of incubation, the chick finally begins its escape from the shell. The chick begins by pushing its beak through the air cell. The allantois, which has served as its lungs, begins to dry up as the chick uses its own lungs. The chick continues to push its head outward. The sharp horny structure on the upper beak (egg tooth) and the muscle on the back of the neck help cut the shell. The chick rests, changes position, and keeps cutting until its head falls free of the opened shell. It then kicks free of the bottom portion of the shell. The chick is exhausted and rests while the navel openings heal and its down dries. Gradually, it regains strength and walks. The incubation and hatching is complete. The horny cap will fall off the beak within days after the chick hatches.http://msucares.com/poultry/reproductions/poultry_chicks_embryo.html
    [​IMG]


    Delayed Incubation? http://newenglandbantamclub.homestead.com/delayedincubation.html
    If you hatch eggs in an incubator, particularly one without a fan, you may find the eggs don't all hatch at the same time. Normally chicken eggs take 21 days to hatch and duck eggs 28. However, you may set a batch of eggs and find some chicks seem to hatch a couple days early and other may be 2 or 3 days late. The same thing can even happen under a hen. What's happening?
    Poultry are really pretty primitive. While birds are warm blooded, they are just barely warm blooded as embryos. If heat is removed, development stops. Then, when the heat returns, development starts back up. Development begins almost immediately. Within 16 hours after incubation commences, you can already see a resemblance to chick embryo. The backbone is visible within 20 hours and the eye begins to form by 24 hours. The heart begins to form by 25 hours and begins to beat by 42 hours.
    If you leave eggs in the nest, the time hen(s) spend on the nest egg laying may warm the eggs enough to for development to start. If you then gather those eggs and set them in the incubator along with others, those eggs will have a head start and appear to hatch earlier than you had planned. The key may be whether on not the heart has begun to beat. If it has and then the egg is cooled down, the result would likely be a dead embryo.
    The other reason for a staggered hatch may be caused by different temperatures in different parts of the incubator. If temperatures are a degree or two lower from one area to another, the embryos may still develop, but at a slower rate. Sometimes these fail to hatch but other times it just takes longer. In my experience with wild wood ducks, eggs can hatch anywhere from 27 to 30 days depending upon how frequently the hen leaves the nest and how warm or cold the weather is. You might expect this not to occur under a broody hen, but if she is on a lot of eggs, some eggs may get pushed to the outside edges and not be as warm. If the eggs get randomly redistributed by the hen everything evens out, but if an egg or two get caught up in the nesting material for a day or so, they may take longer to hatch.
    If you are concerned about staggered hatches, gather eggs frequently to prevent the accidental onset of incubation, limit the number of eggs you give a hen or, if using an incubator, don't fill it from corner to corner. Set fewer eggs and cluster them in the center. If you set more eggs, rotate them around so each tends to experience all the temperature spots in the incubator. And be patient. Give eggs an extra 48 hours beyond the hatch date before you throw them out. You may be pleasantly surprised.
    H W Heusmann


    TO ASSIST OR NOT TO ASSIST: refer AGAIN to end of https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/491013/goose-incubation-hatching-guide-completed for how to help a chick.

    The one at this link made me teary eyed.... awwww she saved the peep!


    Sites I will refer to:
    Intervention: Helping Your Chicks Hatch
    https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/9316/intervention-helping-your-chicks-hatch


    After the chick has made a hole in the shell, it stops pipping for three to eight hours and rests. During this time, it is acclimating its lungs to the outside atmosphere. After the resting stage is completed, the second stage of pipping begins....

    The chick begins to turn slowly inside the egg. As it turns, usually counter-clockwise, the cutting edge of the chick tooth continues to chip away. In two to five hours, the chick has made about three quarters of a turn inside the egg. As the chick progresses in its movement around the shell, it begins pushing on the egg cap (large end). Squirming and struggling, the chick works feverishly for about 40 minutes pushing at the cap. Finally with a vigorous shove, the chick breaks free from the shell, still wet and panting.
    When the chick is freed completely from the shell, it lies still. Its energy has been virtually exhausted, and it is extremely tired. After a rest of some few minutes, the chick begins to rise to its feet and gain coordination of its muscles. Within a few days the egg tooth, its usefulness over, will disappear. (http://chickscope.beckman.uiuc.edu/resources/egg_to_chick/procedures.html)


    blood stop weak stop its too soon..... if she is breathing let her be wet membrane let her alone for 2 hours I keep peaking into the bator to see if they are still breathing..... SHE WILL NOT DIE in the shell unless she bleeds, cant breath and simply has health issues beyond your control

    WARNING GRAFIC PICTURES!!!! BELOW, but I have found that they are necessary to be AWARE of HOW much time and patients helping takes!!! and WHAT RUSHING can really do and showing HOW MUCH STUFF THEY NEED TO ABSORB!!


























    see this pic BELOW???? this is what would happen if you opened that membrane too soon and she kicked out prematurely!! Its ALOT to absorb and I wasnt kidding, I swear they have to absorb more than them themselves!! So let her rest! when she is reading she will tell you too, they get so much energy after they absorb that stuff!! CHIRP LOUD !!

    [​IMG]

    this pic is from an youtube video assisted hatch.... I was so upset.... THIS CHICK IS CLEARLY NOT READY for intervention!!

    [​IMG]

    IT TAKES A LONG LONG TIME for them to absorb all the veining sack and fluids!!! DO NOT RUSH THIS!


    BELOW
    see this membrane? this is close to what your looking for! thin thin veining and not so much blood!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    If you feel he may be SHRINK wrapped (only YOU know what your cells, weight, and Humidity have been) maybe you should start reading how to help a chick...... I have watched a ton of videos on youtube and its done all the time with no problems and HAS SAVED many HEALTHY chicks!! PROOF on all those videos!

    "Shrink wrap" vs. "Sticky chick"? https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/491421/shrink-wrap-vs-sticky-chick#post_6242987
    Shrink wrapped: before pipping, both inner and out membranes dry tight around the chick; caused by too little humidity throughout incubation

    Sticky chick: after pipping, the liquids dry becoming glue-like followed by concrete-like; caused by too little humidity during lockdown

    Wet sticky or Swollen: the chick is swollen with water or simply very wet and sticky; caused by too high humidity throughout incubation

    Drowning: the whitish outer membrane is dry while the clearish inner membrane is wet, binding the chick; also caused by too high humidity thoughout incubation

    *Chicks experiencing more than one of the extreme conditions can exhibit multiple issues.
    *These same issues can also occur during natural incubation, under a brooding hen.

    https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/491421/shrink-wrap-vs-sticky-chick#post_6242987


    Float Testing, Checking Egg Viability For Late Or Overdue Hatching Give Eggs A Full 24 Hrs Overdue Before Float Testing. It Works On All Bird Eggs- Period! Takes Very Little Equipment Or Time To Do And Is Easy To Perform.
    https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/383525/float-testing-checking-egg-viability-for-late-or-overdue-hatching

    Eggtopsy: What happened to my egg?
    https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/363717/eggtopsy-what-happened-to-my-egg-graphic-pictures


    check out
    Trouble Shooting Failures with Egg Incubation @ http://msucares.com/poultry/reproductions/trouble.html


    http://www.poultry.msstate.edu/extension/pdf/troubleshooting_incubation.pdf
    http://anrcatalog.ucdavis.edu/pdf/8127.pdf

    This is also a great pdf with pics: paste link in browser search:
    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=early%20emrbyo%20death%20%20incubation&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&ved=0CDsQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thepoultrysite.com%2Fdownloads%2Fdownload%2F171%2F&ei=UllaUMXFHsmrygGnjoHICw&usg=AFQjCNGgYxCBYwBex31MS5w2McdnpH1zbw

    ALSO this PDF at the last pages have a chart that shows what could have happened.... http://gallus.tamu.edu/library/extpublications/b6092.pdf
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Jackson55

    Jackson55 Out Of The Brooder

    13
    0
    22
    Dec 21, 2012
    Texas
    All I see is this. I want her to be alright. I know she's not alive yet but I call her Sonni (sounds the same as Sunny). Does Sonni look like she'll live? [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2012
  10. Sally Sunshine

    Sally Sunshine Cattywampus Angel <straightens Halo> Premium Member

    55,602
    5,166
    626
    Aug 23, 2012
    Pennsylvania
    My Coop
    jackson is she moving or chirping? if not and no internal pip you must do that float test in the link I added above...
    Float Testing, Checking Egg Viability For Late Or Overdue Hatching Give Eggs A Full 24 Hrs Overdue Before Float Testing. It Works On All Bird Eggs- Period! Takes Very Little Equipment Or Time To Do And Is Easy To Perform.
    https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/383525/float-testing-checking-egg-viability-for-late-or-overdue-hatching


    If she isnt, we can work through the bugs and get you hatching like a pro ok?? dont give up no matter what!
     

BackYard Chickens is proudly sponsored by