Sick chicken or just old?

[ChickenCanoe]

I'm not buying the old age thing. 6 isn't very old for properly fed and managed birds.
Layer feed for two years without needing to utilize that much calcium to build egg shells would likely have caused urolithiasis. That kidney damage goes unnoticed for a while till the chicken just dies when the fifth of the six kidney segments fails. A necropsy would have shown that.
4% calcium in the diet will cause harm to non-laying birds.

 

[rebrascora]

I'm so sorry you lost your hen.

I'm afraid, I don't buy "old age" either. Would you say a 60 year old person died of old age....I wouldn't. There is always a cause of death even for 100 year old people or 12 year old hens.

I'm not sure I subscribe to the kidney failure due to layer feed, particularly. It is possible, but so are many other ailments.

I would have been interested to know if there was any abdominal swelling. Ascites (water belly) is common in production birds due to reproductive disorders and the fact that she had not laid for 2 years suggests that may have been an issue. That would mean she stopped laying as a 4 year old. Ascites will often cause respiratory distress due to the pressure of fluid on the air sacs making breathing difficult. I'm not sure where in the world you are but gape worm are actually pretty uncommon but people see a bird gaping and make that connection.

Unfortunately we will never know the actual cause now.

Just for your information, if you live in the states it would probably be considerably cheaper to have a necropsy done by your state Agricultural or Veterinary Diagnostics Lab. They are usually subsidised because chickens are considered livestock and they generally have much better testing facilities and much greater knowledge of poultry than even an avian vet.

I wish you well with your remaining flock.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Research and science don't normally lie. This bird hadn't laid an egg in two years so her need for and response to excess calcium should be considered no different than a rooster or growing bird. One shouldn't feed that level of calcium to a rooster for 2 years. 4% is excessive for any bird not building shells. When a bird dies for no apparent reason, they don't have a necropsy so they will never know. This is especially true for roosters. It hasn't been studied in 6 year old hens that haven't laid in 2 years because the commercial layers are culled long before that. I just wish people with means would get more necropsies.
A necropsy done at home will show kidney damage.
http://www.neobio.biz/database/n-5data5-2/n-5data5-2-7.pdf
https://academic.oup.com/ps/article-abstract/64/12/2300/1582007?redirectedFrom=PDF
https://www.hyline.com/aspx/redbook/redbook.aspx?s=5&p=36
https://www.poultryworld.net/Breede...-damage-is-emerging-in-laying-hens-WP008719W/
http://www.reproduction-online.org/content/early/2011/06/13/REP-11-0131.full.pdf

 

[jools2014]

Wish I hadn't updated now, way to make me feel bad. I only have 2 chickens left now, will probably sell them, although I suppose I'll get a bunch of stick for selling them when my other hen had resp. problems. Oh no wait, she died because of my negligence in feeding. Whatever, not keeping birds anymore, clearly a neglectful owner.

6 and a half years old IS considered old for most hens, I've read plenty and yes a few make it to 10 or whatever, just like a few people make it to 100-anything over 5 is considered old age for most hens. There are posts on here describing hens showing signs of old age that are similar. It's just your opinion, you can "not buy" whatever you damn well want.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

I'm sorry you feel that way. We didn't respond to make you feel bad. It was to inform you how to feed non-laying birds.
Sometimes I don't know why I even bother to reply.

 

[jools2014]

No I don't know why you bother either-I've just lost my beloved pet who I adored who I've had for over 6 years-yes I know that's not a very long time to you, but insensitive much? Do you say to someone who's just lost their dog "14 years old, is that it? That's not very old for that breed, what were you feeding them?"

I could dig her up and take her to the vet for a necropsy but I doubt you'd believe what I said the results were, feel like I'm on trial here.

The feed info says "formulated to provide a complete balanced diet for all types of adult and laying poultry, ducks, geese and bantams." but I will ring the shop tomorrow and ask them for clarification. I can't even find where it mentions the amount of calcium in the ingredients, it merely states "calcium carbonate" but not what percentage. There is also no alternative feed on the companies website besides "breeder and show pellets", "chick crumb" and "growers pellets", obviously none of those would have been appropriate for her either. If it was so important I think they would have a bag for the adult cockerels/non layers but nope.

I also had my cockerel on layers pellets ever since I got him and I had him for over 4 years, he was in perfect health and I lost him to a fox, so he was on layers pellets for 2+ years more than my hen with absolutely no issues.

I would have been interested to know if there was any abdominal swelling. Ascites (water belly) is common in production birds due to reproductive disorders and the fact that she had not laid for 2 years suggests that may have been an issue. That would mean she stopped laying as a 4 year old. Ascites will often cause respiratory distress due to the pressure of fluid on the air sacs making breathing difficult. I'm not sure where in the world you are but gape worm are actually pretty uncommon but people see a bird gaping and make that connection.

Yes it does sound rather like that. Although the vet did a thorough exam and never mentioned swelling, and the antibiotics did help. So what would be the cure for that issue, have it drained? Or just cull as there is no cure? I'm in the UK, I thought she probably didn't have gapeworm but I thought I better worm the flock anyway just in case.

 

[rebrascora]

So what would be the cure for that issue, have it drained?

Draining only provides temporary relief from the ascites which is really just a symptom of a more serious underlying problem, which is usually fatal sooner or later. If it is a reproductive issue, hormonal implants (Superlorin) can extend the lifespan but need to be replaced by a vet every 3-6 months and it is quite expensive, so it depends if you consider your hens pets or not. My finances do not run to veterinary treatment for my hens, so I would probably do my best to drain and then euthanize when quality of life deteriorated.

By saying that I didn't "buy" that she died of old age, I was not necessarily saying that you could have saved her and certainly not intending to finger point in any way. I just find it frustrating that people use the term "old age" or "sudden death syndrome" as though they are some reason or explanation for the death of a chicken. Old age does not kill creatures. Diseases and ailments and organ failure and predators and injuries kill. I'm sorry if it sounds pedantic, but I have a scientific mind and I worry that people start to accept that old age is a cause of death instead of looking for the real reason and learning to recognise the symptoms and perhaps find a way to treat or prevent it in other members of the flock. Hence the importance of a necropsy in determining cause of death, but I understand that is not an option for everyone, either financially or emotionally.

I'm really sorry that you lost your girl and more so that you feel that we have been unsympathetic and made your grief more painful. I know how heart breaking it is and more so, when you have so few birds as that makes them even more special. I hope that our comments will not discourage you from keeping your remaining 2 and that your comment to rehome them was just an off the cuff remark because you clearly love and care for them a lot and it would be very sad for them and you to do that.

All I can say is "I'm sorry" and will try to be more considerate in the future.

 

[jools2014]

Thank you, I was maybe being a bit oversensitive and taking things the wrong way since it had just happened and I've been extremely tired lately due to the heat over here preventing getting a good nights sleep. I adore animals and the worst thing for me is to think I let an animal suffer or caused their death in some way.

Yes I know a bit about implants-every time I've taken a chicken to the vet he's mentioned them as an option (I lost my others all to laying issues). I do consider them pets but I don't think I was quite prepared for how expensive they can come to be, I know when you get animals you should know the costs and problems involved but it seemed like it was fairly easy and cheap to keep chickens which I haven't found to be the case. If I was rich and decided to ever keep animals again I'd make sure I lived next door to a vet!

Yes maybe a necropsy would've been helpful, to be honest though my avian vet is extremely busy and I wouldn't like to take up his time with something like that, although it would've been good to know, it wouldn't achieve anything at this point or change anything.

I know you don't die of "old age" exactly, it was more like she was slowing down and becoming weaker and slower in the same way as my 93 year old grandmother is. Because she didn't act in the same way as my other hens who were sick-she still came over for treats and came out with the rest of the flock instead of just standing around like my others who died, it was a hard one to diagnose. Usually I expect it with a sick chicken the night before but she was full of life that evening. At this point I'm thinking she had a heart issue or maybe something to do with her stopping laying-no idea why she stopped producing eggs when she did.

I will be looking to sell my remaining hens as I only have the 2 left so if one of those were to die I'd have a lone hen and it may take a while to rehome her (I have ducks but it's not the same as a chicken friend), I've always said I wouldn't have any more pets the worry and guilt far outweighs the joy of having them. I'd hate to lose them I love these girls but I think it may be best for them to have some more friends and maybe even get a chance of hatching some chicks since they are Buff Orpingtons and make such good broodies.

Although I must say I have never had any issues with these 2 or my ducks, it's only the hybrid hens that have been such a worry and had the health issues mostly egg related, despite the fact my Orps lay really well too as do my ducks.