Sick chickens

[RodNTN]

@lazy gardener, are you familiar with Mareks?

 

[RodNTN]

So, do I need to give them any specific meds? And I assume I need to clean/sterilize the coops and feeders/waterers ASAP?

 

[lazy gardener]

No, I'm not, Rod. But I would not suspect Marek's to kill so suddenly unless it was a chick who had been vaccinated. Typically, the bird would be symptomatic before dropping dead.

As for concern about the possibility of it being Marek's, if it is, your whole flock is already exposed. My understanding is that it typically attacks stressed birds, or birds with compromised immune systems.

I would sooner suspect an injury with her attempting to get away from an aggressor, or perhaps botulism. If the latter, I would expect other birds to be symptomatic. Look her over very carefully for any tiny wounds on or around her neck. What breed is she? Possibly a breed known for a vaulted skull?

 

[RodNTN]

No, I'm not, Rod. But I would not suspect Marek's to kill so suddenly unless it was a chick who had been vaccinated. Typically, the bird would be symptomatic before dropping dead.

As for concern about the possibility of it being Marek's, if it is, your whole flock is already exposed. My understanding is that it typically attacks stressed birds, or birds with compromised immune systems.

I would sooner suspect an injury with her attempting to get away from an aggressor, or perhaps botulism. If the latter, I would expect other birds to be symptomatic. Look her over very carefully for any tiny wounds on or around her neck. What breed is she? Possibly a breed known for a vaulted skull?

Okay, that is a relief.

She doesn't have any wounds, but she has had diarrhea for the past couple of days. And her weight had decreased a lot since the day before yesterday.

She is an Easter Egger.

 

[lazy gardener]

Rod, I went back and read and scrutinized your entire thread. I was confusing your thread with an other recent thread. My apology. Did I read correctly: Your birds were 1 year old, and have suddenly become symptomatic, but they WERE vaccinated for Marek's dz as chicks???? Typically the vaccine will not prevent the illness, but will mask the symptoms. That being said, vaccinated birds can be active shedders of MD virus while being asymptomatic. Marek's vaccine is a leaky vaccine, which means that it does not kill all of the virus in the host. Therefore, the remaining virus are left to develop resistance, and become more lethal. If an other one of your birds becomes ill, I would definitely have a necropsy done.

The fact that they recently ate some old watermelon could be an issue. And, it's possible that the 2 deaths are from different causes. Perhaps MD, perhaps insecticide poisoning from the watermelon, or bacterial contamination. You won't know without doing a necropsy.

Sorry you've lost these birds. The worst part of it is the second guessing that goes along with it: watching and wondering if/when the next bird will become ill. Wondering if it's contagious. Sorry I can't help you more. The stress of the summer heat will make any illness more difficult to manage. I suggest that you put out a separate waterer with electrolyte solution. Be sure to change it out every 12 - 24 hours. You can make your own. 2 Tbsp sugar, 1/2 Tsp each salt and baking soda (and salt substitute if you have it available ) per qt. of water. You can also supply Poultry Nutri Drench to boost their systems.

With the summer heat, if you are experiencing that, an electrolyte imbalance can cause a hen to loose coordination and die. I had a group of youngsters last summer that were stumbling around. It was a hot day, my first thought was Marek's disease. But given the heat of the day, and the fact that I myself was feeling a bit weak and dizzy, I came inside, did a quick google search for electrolyte solution. Mixed up a batch, gave some to the birds, and drank some myself. Within 1/2 hour, the chicks were back to their usual behavior.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Rod, I'm sorry to hear about Cookie.

I know it's heartbreaking, but the only way to know for sure what caused her rapid decline would be to have a necropsy/testing performed. If you happen to still have the body, I suggest you place it in several layers of plastic and refrigerate it and make arrangements to send it in. Your State Lab can give you better answers and you will know if this is something that can be treated, prevented or managed. (don't hold me to it, but I believe in TN diagnostics are free or very minimal for poultry)

 

[rebrascora]

Rod, I'm sorry you lost your other girl too. Unfortunately I am finding your posts about their symptoms quite difficult to follow


Can you confirm that I have picked this up right in summary.....

The two birds that have died were both just under a year old and had not been vaccinated for Marek's.
Both of them suffered balance/coordination issues a few days before they died and Pumpkin displayed some lameness at some point prior to this recent illness....

Pumpkins shanks were bleeding, I cleaned them up, though, and sprayed with Vetericyn, and her legs were fine after that. But before she did have a really bad limp in her right leg. I assumed it was sprained, since there were no visible injuries

They were still eating and drinking normally for several days during this recent period of imbalance before declining and death.

All these things point strongly towards Marek's and I would really encourage you to get a necropsy done so you know what you are dealing with.
For information, Marek's can cause sudden death with little or no symptoms or it can take weeks or months or even years to kill them. The initial lameness experienced by Pumpkin was almost certainly the first outbreak. You are not clear if she fully recovered from that but it certainly can happen that way. I have had some be lame for a few days or even a few weeks and come sound, only to lose motor function a month or two later. The "drunkness" is quite a telling descriptive. They lose the ability to feel or coordinate one or more limbs and they stagger or flounder because they cannot balance.

As regards, your new unvaccinated birds.... have they been in contact with these two sick ones during the past 2-3 months? How close are they housed? Vaccinating them at this stage may well be a waste of time and money depending on the above factors. Vaccine is available in 1000 doses and has to be kept refrigerated and used within an hour of mixing the components to activate it. It needs to be injected into the back of the neck and strict biosecurity measures followed to keep the birds from exposure to the virus for 3 weeks..... bearing in mind it may now have been carried to much of your property on clothing shoes hair and skin as well as the wind....(If this is indeed Marek's of course), so in my opinion it would not be worth the expense and work involved when the odds are stacked so heavily against it being successful. If they were day old chicks it would be another matter. This is why you really need a definite diagnosis, so you know how to move forward and if local necropsy testing is financially viable, then it makes sense to do it. So many people want to bury their head in the sand with Marek's and will hope/believe it could be anything else rather than get a diagnosis and learn how to manage it.
In my experience, Marek's is not nearly as bad as much of what you read, but local strains vary in aggressiveness. Knowledge is the way forward.

 

[RodNTN]

Rod, I went back and read and scrutinized your entire thread. I was confusing your thread with an other recent thread. My apology. Did I read correctly: Your birds were 1 year old, and have suddenly become symptomatic, but they WERE vaccinated for Marek's dz as chicks???? Typically the vaccine will not prevent the illness, but will mask the symptoms. That being said, vaccinated birds can be active shedders of MD virus while being asymptomatic. Marek's vaccine is a leaky vaccine, which means that it does not kill all of the virus in the host. Therefore, the remaining virus are left to develop resistance, and become more lethal. If an other one of your birds becomes ill, I would definitely have a necropsy done.

The fact that they recently ate some old watermelon could be an issue. And, it's possible that the 2 deaths are from different causes. Perhaps MD, perhaps insecticide poisoning from the watermelon, or bacterial contamination. You won't know without doing a necropsy.

Sorry you've lost these birds. The worst part of it is the second guessing that goes along with it: watching and wondering if/when the next bird will become ill. Wondering if it's contagious. Sorry I can't help you more. The stress of the summer heat will make any illness more difficult to manage. I suggest that you put out a separate waterer with electrolyte solution. Be sure to change it out every 12 - 24 hours. You can make your own. 2 Tbsp sugar, 1/2 Tsp each salt and baking soda (and salt substitute if you have it available ) per qt. of water. You can also supply Poultry Nutri Drench to boost their systems.

With the summer heat, if you are experiencing that, an electrolyte imbalance can cause a hen to loose coordination and die. I had a group of youngsters last summer that were stumbling around. It was a hot day, my first thought was Marek's disease. But given the heat of the day, and the fact that I myself was feeling a bit weak and dizzy, I came inside, did a quick google search for electrolyte solution. Mixed up a batch, gave some to the birds, and drank some myself. Within 1/2 hour, the chicks were back to their usual behavior.

Thank you so much for your detailed and knowledgeable answer

Yes, Both birds were bought from Rural King a year ago. I may be wrong, but I do not think Rural King (the feed store we bought these chickens from) vaccinates the chicks they order.

I did put some homemade electrolyte solution in one of the waterers this afternoon (after cleaning and sanitizing the coop). And I put some Nutri-Drench in another waterer.

 

[RodNTN]

Rod, I'm sorry to hear about Cookie.

I know it's heartbreaking, but the only way to know for sure what caused her rapid decline would be to have a necropsy/testing performed. If you happen to still have the body, I suggest you place it in several layers of plastic and refrigerate it and make arrangements to send it in. Your State Lab can give you better answers and you will know if this is something that can be treated, prevented or managed. (don't hold me to it, but I believe in TN diagnostics are free or very minimal for poultry)

I already buried Cookie, but if it happens again with a different bird I'll look into having a necropsy performed. Thankfully all of the chickens are doing great right now (that electrolyte solution really perked them all up!)

 

[RodNTN]

Rod, I'm sorry you lost your other girl too. Unfortunately I am finding your posts about their symptoms quite difficult to follow


Can you confirm that I have picked this up right in summary.....

The two birds that have died were both just under a year old and had not been vaccinated for Marek's.
Both of them suffered balance/coordination issues a few days before they died and Pumpkin displayed some lameness at some point prior to this recent illness....


They were still eating and drinking normally for several days during this recent period of imbalance before declining and death.

All these things point strongly towards Marek's and I would really encourage you to get a necropsy done so you know what you are dealing with.
For information, Marek's can cause sudden death with little or no symptoms or it can take weeks or months or even years to kill them. The initial lameness experienced by Pumpkin was almost certainly the first outbreak. You are not clear if she fully recovered from that but it certainly can happen that way. I have had some be lame for a few days or even a few weeks and come sound, only to lose motor function a month or two later. The "drunkness" is quite a telling descriptive. They lose the ability to feel or coordinate one or more limbs and they stagger or flounder because they cannot balance.

As regards, your new unvaccinated birds.... have they been in contact with these two sick ones during the past 2-3 months? How close are they housed? Vaccinating them at this stage may well be a waste of time and money depending on the above factors. Vaccine is available in 1000 doses and has to be kept refrigerated and used within an hour of mixing the components to activate it. It needs to be injected into the back of the neck and strict biosecurity measures followed to keep the birds from exposure to the virus for 3 weeks..... bearing in mind it may now have been carried to much of your property on clothing shoes hair and skin as well as the wind....(If this is indeed Marek's of course), so in my opinion it would not be worth the expense and work involved when the odds are stacked so heavily against it being successful. If they were day old chicks it would be another matter. This is why you really need a definite diagnosis, so you know how to move forward and if local necropsy testing is financially viable, then it makes sense to do it. So many people want to bury their head in the sand with Marek's and will hope/believe it could be anything else rather than get a diagnosis and learn how to manage it.
In my experience, Marek's is not nearly as bad as much of what you read, but local strains vary in aggressiveness. Knowledge is the way forward.

Yes, you have everything correct. Sorry I haven't been clear, this has been very confusing and I'll try to start being more comprehensible

Yes, they have been in the same coop with these birds for the past two weeks. So I assume a vaccination would be useless since they have been exposed to each other?