Sick Marans....need help immediately!

NevilChick

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I'm sorry if a similar thread is already on here but I am desperate. I noticed a couple of days ago my blue copper marans were not eating as much as usual and thought they were being picky. Last night I found a younger bird dead and checked and some were hatchet chested. This morning I found another bird dead. I checked a few and a couple had mites so I immediately dusted them all. One of my large roosters is sick and all but four others. I have had them on corrid (all of my chickens) because I noticed a few were hatched chested and I was trying to either treat or prevent any problems. Poop is fine on all birds so I don't know what to do. Any help would be appreciated.
 
You mean they have a prominent keel?
The best thing to do if you really want to get to the bottom of it would be to send one of the birds off to your state poultry lab for necropsy and lab work. You are probably dealing with multiple issues.
What state are you in?
Most likely they have some type of worm.
Corid is for coccidia. Did they have symptoms of coccidiosis?
For mites, you'll need to dust again in a week after you clean out the building and treat it.
 
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Hi, welcome to BYC! :frow

Sorry you are having trouble. :(

Can you tell me what hatchet chested is please? I've never heard that term before.

What are the age of your birds? How many total? What do you feed, including treats and supplements? Do you free range? Have you ever had a fecal float done to test for coccidia or worms?

How long have you been using the Corid before? Corid works only on coccidia and doesn't actually kill them but starves them out by blocking thiamine. It also usually only an issue in warm humid conditions similar to that of a brooder, but sometimes caused by weather that is like that. My guess is Corid is irrelevant and NOT doing your birds any favors. Thiamine is a B vitamin, I believe.

I would stop the Corid and take a group fecal sample to the vet, mine is $15 and doesn't have to be an avian vet. Any can do it. At that point I would treat for worms IF indicated. I would NOT treat for worms without confirmation that is the problem because treating an already ill bird can be detrimental, especially if you worm but don't treat the correct species.

I would also refrigerate one of the deceased birds and send for necropsy...

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/how-to-send-a-bird-for-a-necropsy-pictures.799747/

Contact info for state poulty labs...
https://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/nahln/downloads/all_nahln_lab_list.pdf

Any other symptoms? Coughing, sneezing, watery eyes, labored breathing, standing hunched up and sleeping, trouble walking, isolating? Here is a symptom checker that while not perfect can be very helpful in at least giving you some options of what you might be dealing with...
http://www.poultrydvm.com/symptoms

:fl
 
Hi, welcome to BYC! :frow

Sorry you are having trouble. :(

Can you tell me what hatchet chested is please? I've never heard that term before.

What are the age of your birds? How many total? What do you feed, including treats and supplements? Do you free range? Have you ever had a fecal float done to test for coccidia or worms?

How long have you been using the Corid before? Corid works only on coccidia and doesn't actually kill them but starves them out by blocking thiamine. It also usually only an issue in warm humid conditions similar to that of a brooder, but sometimes caused by weather that is like that. My guess is Corid is irrelevant and NOT doing your birds any favors. Thiamine is a B vitamin, I believe.

I would stop the Corid and take a group fecal sample to the vet, mine is $15 and doesn't have to be an avian vet. Any can do it. At that point I would treat for worms IF indicated. I would NOT treat for worms without confirmation that is the problem because treating an already ill bird can be detrimental, especially if you worm but don't treat the correct species.

I would also refrigerate one of the deceased birds and send for necropsy...

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/how-to-send-a-bird-for-a-necropsy-pictures.799747/

Contact info for state poulty labs...
https://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/nahln/downloads/all_nahln_lab_list.pdf

Any other symptoms? Coughing, sneezing, watery eyes, labored breathing, standing hunched up and sleeping, trouble walking, isolating? Here is a symptom checker that while not perfect can be very helpful in at least giving you some options of what you might be dealing with...
http://www.poultrydvm.com/symptoms

:fl
Hatchet chested is a term many use here to describe a bony breast. the bird would have no meat when you pick it up and check the breast. Actually a couple of the birds do seem congested. It is extremely dry here and many people are having severe trouble with asthma. The birds are not free range and they eat FRM layer and have scratch almost every day unless they get grapes or I give them cooked pasta as a treat. That was the first sign of trouble...scratch left on ground. They have only been on the corid for the five days. My rooster is now not moving around and I fear he will not survive another couple of hours without intervention. The first birds to die were about four to five months old and the rooster is over a year old. I have three hens that have been laying during the summer that appear to be ok now. They did all stop laying about a month ago.

Thank you so much for these links! I truly appreciate the help.
 
not free range and they eat FRM layer and have scratch almost every day unless they get grapes or I give them cooked pasta as a treat.
Your birds are likely suffering from malnutrition. If they have worms, then it could be even more exaggerated.

Layer usually has about 16% protein. Scratch around 8%. Chickens need a MINIMUM of 16%. Scratch should be given as a treat at no more than 10% of their total daily intake. Grapes and pasta, same thing. Start thinking high protein treats like meal worms, left over beef, chicken, or fish, peas, any extra eggs... that type of stuff. I would cut the scratch completely until you see improvement and then after that use it as a special treat that they come running and associate with you. :)

The issue with scratch is that it has calories but not much nutrients. It's on par with a bag of chips or candy bar IMO. Although chicken feed is often mostly corn, it has added vitamins, minerals, and amino acids. It's actually the amino acids in the protein which are key. Plant protein is where they get a lot in their feed, but they NEED animal protein. Feeds that don't have animals products in them, have the amino acids added in separately.

Now your hens that stopped laying, are they old enough and actually just had a molt? Feathers are made of 90% protein and hens stop laying in order to put the energy to growing new feathers. It can be a very stressful time for them. And lot's of times illness will rear its' ugly head during this time when the birds are in a little weakened state. Adding protein to their diet will help them to recover faster and maybe even return to lay a little sooner.

I feed a flock raiser with 20% protein and offer my oyster shell free choice on the side. Anything 16% or higher and 30% or lower is acceptable... Reason I do this is chicks, broody's, molting hens, roosters and juveniles don't need the extra calcium in layer and it *could* (doesn't mean will) cause kidney failure if fed long term. And I have those all in my flock most of the time. In fact Marans and Silkies are the two I breed.

Oh wait, I just realized we are talking about Marans which is a dual purpose bird and not a light bodied layer! They should be raised more like meat birds than layers. I wouldn't feed anything less than 18%, personally. A link to feed guidelines... (one misprint says 5-17% and should say 15-17%)...
http://ucanr.edu/sites/poultry/files/186894.pdf

I will also note as a breeder, I have read studies showing better hatches and chick vitality when the parent stock were fed a higher protein diet. To me that says better nutrition in the eggs that are being fed to my family.

This is only one part of the equation and why I always ask what people are feeding.

I would likely also stop the Corid since I haven't heard anything that sounds like cocci. And I would get some vitamin supplements, maybe some electrolytes, and probiotics on board right now. And start making plans to send a bird out for necropsy if you do have another pass. It's the only way to know for sure what you are dealing with. Some states do for free as a means of protecting our nations food supply chain. It cost $40 here in CA.

I will be back in a moment with a homemade electrolyte recipe.

One more question... how many birds in what size space, and you current or recent weather conditions?

I'm only sharing my experience and am NO expert. If something I say doesn't make sense to you, please do your own research and then do what you think is right for you and your birds. :highfive:
 
Your birds are likely suffering from malnutrition. If they have worms, then it could be even more exaggerated.

Layer usually has about 16% protein. Scratch around 8%. Chickens need a MINIMUM of 16%. Scratch should be given as a treat at no more than 10% of their total daily intake. Grapes and pasta, same thing. Start thinking high protein treats like meal worms, left over beef, chicken, or fish, peas, any extra eggs... that type of stuff. I would cut the scratch completely until you see improvement and then after that use it as a special treat that they come running and associate with you. :)

The issue with scratch is that it has calories but not much nutrients. It's on par with a bag of chips or candy bar IMO. Although chicken feed is often mostly corn, it has added vitamins, minerals, and amino acids. It's actually the amino acids in the protein which are key. Plant protein is where they get a lot in their feed, but they NEED animal protein. Feeds that don't have animals products in them, have the amino acids added in separately.

Now your hens that stopped laying, are they old enough and actually just had a molt? Feathers are made of 90% protein and hens stop laying in order to put the energy to growing new feathers. It can be a very stressful time for them. And lot's of times illness will rear its' ugly head during this time when the birds are in a little weakened state. Adding protein to their diet will help them to recover faster and maybe even return to lay a little sooner.

I feed a flock raiser with 20% protein and offer my oyster shell free choice on the side. Anything 16% or higher and 30% or lower is acceptable... Reason I do this is chicks, broody's, molting hens, roosters and juveniles don't need the extra calcium in layer and it *could* (doesn't mean will) cause kidney failure if fed long term. And I have those all in my flock most of the time. In fact Marans and Silkies are the two I breed.

Oh wait, I just realized we are talking about Marans which is a dual purpose bird and not a light bodied layer! They should be raised more like meat birds than layers. I wouldn't feed anything less than 18%, personally. A link to feed guidelines... (one misprint says 5-17% and should say 15-17%)...
http://ucanr.edu/sites/poultry/files/186894.pdf

I will also note as a breeder, I have read studies showing better hatches and chick vitality when the parent stock were fed a higher protein diet. To me that says better nutrition in the eggs that are being fed to my family.

This is only one part of the equation and why I always ask what people are feeding.

I would likely also stop the Corid since I haven't heard anything that sounds like cocci. And I would get some vitamin supplements, maybe some electrolytes, and probiotics on board right now. And start making plans to send a bird out for necropsy if you do have another pass. It's the only way to know for sure what you are dealing with. Some states do for free as a means of protecting our nations food supply chain. It cost $40 here in CA.

I will be back in a moment with a homemade electrolyte recipe.

One more question... how many birds in what size space, and you current or recent weather conditions?

I'm only sharing my experience and am NO expert. If something I say doesn't make sense to you, please do your own research and then do what you think is right for you and your birds. :highfive:


Thank you so much. I have been very concerned about protein because I just don't think the feed gives them enough. I probably don't give them as much scratch as it sounded like but I will stop that. Actually they stopped eating it about Thursday. I generally throw a handful each day unless they are having another treat. I wasn't thinking that I do give them boiled eggs when I have extra and give them ham sometimes. I put the oyster shells separate and do give them egg shells sometimes too. I also have been putting Kickin Chicken on the feed. My layers were laying really well until a couple of months ago.

I did stop the Corid and I gave the birds electrolytes more often during the summer but I can definitely do that. Anything I can add to their diet I will gladly do. I don't want to lose my birds! My rooster is very sick and I have removed him hoping to nurse him back to health. He is a little wheezy and I have been debating giving him Tylan injections. I was also about to cook some bacon! I've been working all morning on this flock. I only have 9 now and they are in a 10x40 pen.
 
Where are you located? Are you able to get a commercial higher protein feed for them? It really sounds like malnutrition as EggSighted4life mentioned....Alot feed scratch (less costly) thinking it's great cause all the mixed seeds but it's NOT, it's more a treat. Bacon is greasy, ground beef is alot better, tuna, scrambled eggs, salmon, etc...

Take a fecal sample to a vet to check if they have worms, as EggSighted4Life stated if they have worms it could be worst.

Wish you the best, you've been given great advice.
 
Where are you located? Are you able to get a commercial higher protein feed for them? It really sounds like malnutrition as EggSighted4life mentioned....Alot feed scratch (less costly) thinking it's great cause all the mixed seeds but it's NOT, it's more a treat. Bacon is greasy, ground beef is alot better, tuna, scrambled eggs, salmon, etc...

Take a fecal sample to a vet to check if they have worms, as EggSighted4Life stated if they have worms it could be worst.

Wish you the best, you've been given great advice.


I'm searching for a higher protein feed and can get my feed store to order some I am sure. FRM is actually only 15% protein. They generally are able to and willing to order anything I need.

I took away the scratch today as a treat and had some unhappy birds but would rather have them healthy. I only gave the scratch as a treat but really didn't know it was so unhealthy. I didn't give them the bacon because I was worried about that too. I did give them tuna and they loved it. I was wondering about the ground beef....thank you for that.
I usually boil the eggs and mash them up....is scrambled better?

Also, all of the chickens seem better today except the rooster. He isn't eating much at all. I moved him into my hatching house where it is warmer....almost freezing here tonight...but he is not moving around much or eating. His poop is white and very loose.

I truly appreciate your help.
 

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