SICKNESS: to cull or not to cull

[Impatient]

It's been awhile since I've visited this forum and a lot has happened with my little backyard flock. I've lost half my birds. Started with 6, lost one to a hawk and in the last two weeks I've lost two to illness. My problem is I don't know what illness it is. My birds were all doing great and then there was a crazy cold snap which really messed with them. Within a day two began having loose stools and sniffling. I separated them from the others, kept them inside and within a couple days both were perfectly fine, so I figured they just got too cold before and put them back out with the flock. The next morning 1 was dead and the other was practically dead so I again separated and brought inside. I had to feed him gruel and water with an eye dropper and he seemed to be doing better, but died in a couple days. Then another pullet started showing symptoms so I brought her in and it was pretty touch and go, but she's back to her usual self now. What I'm concerned about is that this is a virus and that the remaining 3 have it and are just asymptomatic and that they're now all carriers. I'm wanting to get some new chicks come spring and since I don't want a sickly flock, I'm wondering if I should butcher my 3 remaining or if it's more likely that the illness was a bacterial infection that won't still be carried by them and they're safe to keep. If it is a virus they'll continue to carry and I do butcher, would it be safe to eat the meat and eggs they produce? Just in case it's the cold, since it's only three pullets remaining, I've been gathering them and bringing them inside at night until I figure out how to make their coop warmer.

 

[azygous]

I think your instincts are very good about this entire matter. Of course, it's impossible to diagnose what sickened and killed your chickens without a necropsy, but there's a greater chance it was a respiratory virus than a bacterial infection.

Winter cold aggravates these virus attacks, lowering resistance. In addition, chickens are cooped up with often poor ventilation which also aggravates the virus attacks. The virus is present in your flock now, and it probably was before the cold spell hit.

Yes, you are correct that it's likely to infect new chickens brought onto your premises unless you cull the remaining carriers of the virus. A good disinfecting of the premises, a few months of a good airing out, should eliminate most respiratory viruses.

I recommend you get a necropsy so you know exactly what you're dealing with so you will know how to eradicate it before introducing new chickens.

 

[Impatient]

I recommend you get a necropsy so you know exactly what you're dealing with so you will know how to eradicate it before introducing new chickens.

I buried one and froze the other in my freezer, would the body still be viable for the necrospy? Also, how much does it cost?

I'll do whatever needs to be done to have a healthy flock, but I'm really hoping this isn't a virus....I've kept their coop clean and until the cold snap none exhibited any issues healthwise, I hatched and raised them myself so they never had any contact with other chickens, but that of course still doesn't rule out a virus...

 

[azygous]

If you plan on culling the remainder of the chickens, it would be best to use one of them for a necropsy. Freezing may have destroyed the pathogens you're wanting to identify.

You have the option to simply assume a respiratory virus is present in your flock, cull the remainder, and do a thorough disinfecting of the premises, and by spring, hope the virus has disappeared.

In some places, you can get a necropsy for free. Most cost around $100. You need to inquire at your local university extension office for guidance.

 

[IdyllwildAcres]

My plan is to cull for illness, now I have not had to yet but thats the plan. From everything I have read (no experience) I would suspect a respiratory issue and consider the flock carriers. I would cull and start over in the spring.

Its a tough call but I think you already know what you will do.

Gary

 

[Impatient]

If I don't cull immediatly, but I don't add more chicks or chickens, would the eggs these pullets produce be safe to eat? If it's a virus only in the chickens and I haven't gotten sick, I would think it can only be transmitted through avians and therefore can't be transmitted to people? If the meat and eggs would be safe to eat I'd like to at least raise them to a decent eating size before butchering and then send one off for the necrospy if they would be safe for consumption. They're currently 14wks old so if I waited a couple more months I could get some eggs and meat and have time to disinfect thoroughly before April/May which is when I'm planning to get some more chicks. There aren't any other chicken keepers within range of me for the illness to travel or else I wouldn't consider this option since the last thing I want to do is infect others flocks.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

There are so many things that could have caused the illness in your birds.

Almost assuredly it wasn't cold weather unless you had them heated in the coop and suddenly removed the heat. Chickens are very cold hardy. However, they do not do well if they go from overly heated to cold and back again.

I agree that it could be illness brought on by cold stress, and at the 14 weeks of age, Marek's leaps to mind.

However, Marek's generally doesn't produce sniffling. That indicates more of a viral or bacterial or even fungal cause.

Marek's can remain in the flock and property for years. However, it is believed to be so prevalent that almost all backyard flocks are exposed. The industry recommends vaccinations in chicks, but it is also recognizing the best course of action is to breed from Marek resistant flock...ie the others in the flock who never showed symptoms...so getting rid of your healthy birds is not the wisest course of action. They are the ones that can survive and thrive on your property if Marek's were to be involved (which I doubt due to the respiratory symptoms).

Mycoplasma Gallesepticum (MG) is a bacterial infection that can be latent until environmental stress brings symptoms. It does spread to the flock. How quickly and thoroughly is debated. It generally produces milder respiratory symptoms in chickens with few deaths. It is controlled by antibiotics such as Tylan, however, only controlled as the bird becomes a lifelong carrier. It acts more like chicken asthma. MG can remain on the property for long periods of time, and owners are advised to keep a closed flock...birds coming in who show resistance...no birds going out to others.

Infectious Bronchitis can be virulent producing sneezing and coughing and spreading quickly within the flock. If it is particularly virulent, it will attack the kidneys and you can see death within 24 hours. However, many birds only have a mild infection and once over it are over it. It takes awhile for the virus to clear the area. Some say up to 12 months. Removing litter and cleaning the coop go a long way to rid your property of the disease. I personally had IB in the flock one season. I cleaned the coop/run and kept those who thrived. Happy healthy flock with no further incidence of IB.

Avian Influenza is a grave concern to the poultry industry, and backyard flocks can act as vectors to commercial farms. If you suspect AI, you are to report it to the state ag department. Its symptoms can be sudden death of many flock members. Usually facial/sinus swelling is present, but not always. It is highly advisable to have necropsy done if you suspect AI.

Other than Avian Influenza (and MG which can be passed to new flocks), there isn't too much your flock could catch that would be of great concern to others including yourself. Almost all avian disease is species specific, so you won't catch it from the birds directly or eating the meat or eggs.

That doesn't mean I recommend eating ill birds or eggs from ill birds as opportunistic bacteria frequently grow in a sick bird, such as eColi, Salmonella and Pasturella, Those are concern to humans.

I personally would not rush to cull the remaining birds unless you KNOW that you have an incurable disease that will be forever infecting any future flock. I would take time to try to figure out what may have caused your birds' demise so that you can prepare any new flock better.

Check for mold in the food. Aspergillis can cause respiratory illness and death.

Check for poor ventilation. It is interesting that your birds improved upon bringing them into the house where the air was likely better. Ammonia build up in the coop can do a lot of harm. Do you have your coop too tight for winter? Birds generate a lot of moisture and "fumes" that need to be vented by openings above their heads at roost time.

Are there possible toxins in the area?

So you see, bacterial or viral infection is only one possibility in a host of a number of things.

If you lose another bird, do try to take it in for a necropsy. Some state ag departments will do it fairly cheaply. That way you will know if you've got something that is a long term concern or if some simple fixes can alleviate the problems.

My thoughts.
Lofmc

 

[Impatient]

That was very informative, thank you. The reason I'm thinking it's cold stress is that the weather was very consistent and then one day it was 50F during the day and dropped to 20F overnight suddenly and the chickens only got sick during the nights with the sudden drops which makes me think that it shocked their systems. All living beings carry bacteria that can overrun our systems and make us sick if our immune system becomes compromised and that's what I'm thinking happened. While the sick ones were sniffling, there wasn't any nasal discharge, mostly just listless and runny poops. It really seemed that they got better when they warmed up. The coop is smaller with intent to build a larger one, but I muck it out weekly and it never smells musty or like ammonia and is well ventilated, which I think is what allowed the cold snap to have such a negative consequence. The remaining three are doing great, even the one that got sick so I'd prefer not to cull and I have chickens just for myself, I don't trade or sell to any other keepers and I only bring in chicks I've hatched myself or are from reputable breeders. I also remembered that when I used to show my RIRs in MA that I used to have to have them blood tested for illness, so I'm thinking I'll see about doing that and wait on the results before making a final decision. Best case is it was a random bacterial infection from cold shock, worst case it's a bad virus and I'll need to butcher. Thank you so much for everyone's help.