Silkie breeding, genetics & showing

[ChickNmamma]

I think you need to realize that incompletely dominant is not quite the same as dominant, and that sometimes even recessives show to a slight extent with a single copy (for example, mottling can show in juvenile feathers, and even in young adult plumage when only one copy is present). Genetics of Chickencolors and Basics is pretty helpful.

I like your spelling analogy

Partridge really isn't that difficult to get right...at least not once you have the right gene combinations in both parents. (Oh, and the colour and pattern of a male partridge (e^b base) is pretty much identical to that of a male gold duckwing (e+ base) or a male wheaten (E^Wh base). Females, however, look entirely different with these three bases.

Nooo.... don't confuse me more! Recessives showing up when based on one copy - NOT FAIR! Ok, ok... letting that sink in.. slowly...

Thank you for that link - looks like I am going to be studying a lot more! Bookmarked!

Thank you for that, Partridge is my favorite color and the one I want to work on. If e^b, e+ or E^Wh base gives apparent Partridge coloring in the males, what is the correct color pattern for a correctly colored e^b female Partridge? Is it the all over goldish look of most Partridge females I am seeing?

If you could look at my Partridge breeding pair and see if you think they are correctly e^b based I would appreciate it. The birds are originally from HatTrick Silkies - were purchased as a breeding pair (BQ) from them by the lady I bought them from. If they are Blue Partridge or will produce Blue Partridge I would love it - because that is exactly the color I want...


Jasper


Minky

Any advise about colors on these would be greatly appreciated!

 

[chisNchickens]

Yes there is, like the blue in say an American Staffordshire Terrier is different than the merle gene in Shelties. Sometimes I don't say everything I mean too! I did not want to say she was wrong, we are both right but I wanted to say the way the diluting works in the chickens (blue x blue=splash) is like how the merle gene in the Shelties works (blue x blue= double merle) and double merles bred to a black dog produce all blues.

Once again, merle is NOT a color. It is a pattern. Merle can occur in any color and may even be present in colors that hide it. So to say blue merle is a dominant color is incorrect. I show and breed chihuahuas and we had a massive merle controversy, which is why I know what little I do about merle. But I do know it is indeed a pattern, You can have red merle too - it is not color specific.
Blue is a dilution of black, and I'm pretty sure it is the same in Am Staffs - recessive.
Okay, enough on that - this is a silkie thread so I shall say no more.

 

[chicksnthestiks]

Once again, merle is NOT a color. It is a pattern. Merle can occur in any color and may even be present in colors that hide it. So to say blue merle is a dominant color is incorrect. I show and breed chihuahuas and we had a massive merle controversy, which is why I know what little I do about merle. But I do know it is indeed a pattern, You can have red merle too - it is not color specific.
Blue is a dilution of black, and I'm pretty sure it is the same in Am Staffs - recessive.
Okay, enough on that - this is a silkie thread so I shall say no more.

I know the merle gene is a pattern and it occurs in any color. I am simply saying it dilutes. I just assumed there is some dilution in the chickens that makes the blue , splash. Since it makes an effect like the merle gene. And this is from an Australian Shephard site:

• All genes come in pairs
• Genes can be "dominant" or "recessive." A dominantG gene is always visible, no matter what it is paired with. A recessiveG gene is only visible when the other half of the pair is the same recessive (homozygousG).
• Dominant genes are not always "good" and recessive genes are not always "bad" (nor is the opposite true).
• Merle (M) is dominant to solid

 

[ChickNmamma]

Blue in chickens is dominant - Merle in dogs is dominant - that was the point I believe she was trying to make - not that BLUE is dominant in dogs, but that Merle is... just trying to equate it to something she knows about from these confuzzling chicken dinosaurs!

Ah, possibly more light shed - maybe the Blue in dogs you think of is like the Lavender in chickens (which is called "Self Blue") - that is recessive and can hide... The Merle gene is closer to the Blue in chickens (although it only modifies black on chickens) but it behaves like it in breedings and modifies the black or red on a dog (but not the white)? No copies, no modification. One copy - modified colors. Two copies - double modification (like splash) that actually hurts the health of the dog...

Oh, and I just thought of this one - you can have a chicken that carries Bl (Blue) but you won't be able to see it on the bird - although it is dominant. Since Bl only modifies black - if you have no black you have no modification... (i.e. Buff)...

Ok, back to studying now..

 

[Sanna]

Take lots of deep breaths!!

Will do!

 

[City farm]

Maybe you could ask on the Maran's thread?  This is the Silkies thread and I don't know if this breed has webbed feet problems (we have 5 toes though). 

I have heard of it in some other breeds - some people slit the chicks toes when they are little if they are attached.  I guess you will have to watch her and see if she has problems walking.  I bet she would be better at swimming than her friends...

P.S. - all chickens have a small amount of webbing between their toes, that is normal.

Yeah the more I look the better she is.. Or some reason I thought it was weird. Only because I compared it to some of our hens that
have very little to none..

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Blue in chickens is dominant - Merle in dogs is dominant - that was the point I believe she was trying to make - not that BLUE is dominant in dogs, but that Merle is... just trying to equate it to something she knows about from these confuzzling chicken dinosaurs!

Ah, possibly more light shed - maybe the Blue in dogs you think of is like the Lavender in chickens (which is called "Self Blue") - that is recessive and can hide... The Merle gene is closer to the Blue in chickens (although it only modifies black on chickens) but it behaves like it in breedings and modifies the black or red on a dog (but not the white)? No copies, no modification. One copy - modified colors. Two copies - double modification (like splash) that actually hurts the health of the dog...

Oh, and I just thought of this one - you can have a chicken that carries Bl (Blue) but you won't be able to see it on the bird - although it is dominant. Since Bl only modifies black - if you have no black you have no modification... (i.e. Buff)...

Ok, back to studying now..

And that is called hypostatic. All pigment expression is hypostatic to recessive white

(However, blue slightly dilutes red pigment; not enough to be a big deal with buff, but you definitely would prefer to avoid if if you are wanting deep RIR-coloured reds.)

 

[ChickNmamma]

Quote: Ooooh - MOOOOORE information! Soaking into brain - cut and pasting and repeat... Lighter Buffs may carry Bl... Avoid if....?????

Full STOP:

RIR colored Red Silkies?

...

NAH!

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote: Ooooh - MOOOOORE information! Soaking into brain - cut and pasting and repeat... Lighter Buffs may carry Bl... Avoid if....?????

Full STOP:

RIR colored Red Silkies?

...

NAH!

There are those working on them. When you hear about European or Dutch red silkies, they are close to RIR colouring. Or at least they were before importation.
http://www.aviculture-europe.nl/nummers/10E03A15.pdf second page

And this is a pair (closer to New Hampshire colouring than RIR, though) that were auctioned on BYC about a year ago:


As for buffs carrying blue, I would not say it is either common or not. There are many factors pther than blue that can make a buff lighter in tint. My point was that blue dilutes red pigment SLIGHTLY, not a lot. Lavender, on the other hand dlutes red A LOT.

 

[liljunie]

Is there a best formula for starting a BBS pen? I understand the BBS genetics and it seems to me you would not want a black roo, since you wouldn't get splash offspring. I have a splash roo for sure, but am waiting for the others to get a little older because I cannot tell the sex yet. I will post pictures in a bit, lI have two splashes and 6 blue or black. I can't figure out how to tell which ones are black since blues can look black.