Silkie breeding, genetics & showing

[PNWGirl]

I have a chick that has the fourth/fifth toe- on one foot only- fused about halfway down the toes. All other things being equal, would this cause a significant point loss at a show?

Sheila

 

[Hawkeye95]

Okay, how would you handle this:
A local breeder advertised show birds. You have corresponded with her and asked for photo's of the Roo & Hen. When viewing you see that the Roo's feathers are flat with hardly any crown so ask how old he is and find that he is 2.5 years old. At this point, while their line is a well known show breeder, you know that these were the show breedersr culls (which were bred with pet birds). How do you tell the breeder that you will not be purchasing any chicks? Anything that I can think of would likely hurt/offend and I do not want to do that but I also do not wish to purchase, clearly, pet birds.
Thanks!

Sheila

I would just tell them you will pass. IF they ask, then you can say you were looking for a better quality bird and just leave it at that. It shouldn't hurt their feelings, because they should know what is good and bad. I would never sell any bird that has potential. So if all other breeders are the same way-- you will NEVER get a show quality bird from someone. But you could get a cull that is fairly nice.

 

[aoxa]

I would just tell them you will pass.  IF they ask, then you can say you were looking for a better quality bird and just leave it at that.  It shouldn't hurt their feelings, because they should know what is good and bad.  I would never sell any bird that has potential.  So if all other breeders are the same way-- you will NEVER get a show quality bird from someone.  But you could get a cull that is fairly nice.  

Some other breeders will sell really good birds that have potential for a very high price. IE: nice female for $100+

But I am like Hawkeye - I couldn't let go of something that had potential. I just know of a few that would for the right price.

 

[Me & Jack]

Okay, how would you handle this:
A local breeder advertised show birds. You have corresponded with her and asked for photo's of the Roo & Hen. When viewing you see that the Roo's feathers are flat with hardly any crown so ask how old he is and find that he is 2.5 years old. At this point, while their line is a well known show breeder, you know that these were the show breedersr culls (which were bred with pet birds). How do you tell the breeder that you will not be purchasing any chicks? Anything that I can think of would likely hurt/offend and I do not want to do that but I also do not wish to purchase, clearly, pet birds.
Thanks!

Sheila

There could be a number of things going on. For starters, any breeder who is experience and serious about producing show-winning birds is not going to keep a cull for 2.5 years. So, that could mean this bird is, indeed, some pet-quality bird that was either returned to the breeder, kept around for some reason other than showing/breeding (maybe a child's pet), or the bird is better quality than the photos suggest, in which case you should go and take a look and then decide. Crests can become tattered, barren or scruffy-looking from weather, fighting, molting, etc. It's the other qualities the bird possesses that will help you determine its true quality. Which brings me to my last point: were the birds advertised as show winners, or merely from a show quality line? It's disingenuous for someone to suggest any bird is a "show quality" bird unless that bird has actually been shown or could be shown and compete. SQ eggs, SQ chicks -- all misnomers, IMO. How can you know for sure until the bird is old enough to show? Not to mention the fact that a bird that wins a show at some county fair is not necessarily worthy of competing against birds at the national level. If this breeder is well-known and respected by other breeders you might want to take a chance on purchasing chicks, but I would get opinions from other breeders before you do so. I can think of a few "show breeders" whose birds are not the kind of quality I would want to purchase. But do you owe this person an explanation? Nope. Just say you've changed your mind for now, or be honest and say you have some concerns about the bird's appearance. Maybe you'll get some genuine answers--maybe you won't. Buyer Beware is always a good mantra! LOL

 

[littlecritters]

Okay, how would you handle this:
A local breeder advertised show birds.  You have corresponded with her and asked for photo's of the Roo & Hen.  When viewing you see that the Roo's feathers are flat with hardly any crown so ask how old he is and find that he is 2.5 years old.  At this point, while their line is a well known show breeder, you know that these were the show breedersr culls (which were bred with pet birds).  How do you tell the breeder that you will not be purchasing any chicks?  Anything that I can think of would likely hurt/offend and I do not want to do that but I also do not wish to purchase, clearly, pet birds.
Thanks!

Sheila

I'd like to share my thoughts on this. I would politely pass on those particlar birds and unless you wish to inquire about pics of their offspring or other stock she may have available, I would leave it at that. I personally, would not say anything about the quality of the birds as it may be taken the wrong way. Once you burn a bridge with the breeder, there's usually no going back. especially if s/he may have some other stock that you may want down the road...

 

[JoshU]

I know!! It's so sickening. It makes me so sad, because she is so pretty.

I'm going to hang on to her, but I just don't know if I want to risk it or not. I'll see how she continues to develop. I was even thinking she may have a wry tail, but some days I don't see it at all, and others I see a hint of it. I'm just going to throw her to one side as a maybe or a trial run... but I hate to breed bad birds. Likely she's just going to be a pet.

Thanks, Janine. I'm soooo glad you are here! This is exactly what Peep and I have been wanting-- someone much more experienced than ourselves to keep us learning and not floundering! I really appreciate the critique and by all means, be very honest, if I'm missing flaws or overlooking something, I absolutely want it brought to my attention. This younger chick I just showed you is about 3 months.

I have another question for you! I have another chick, who is about 3 months and she is also starting to develop pretty good type. Her wings are better than either of these two. BUT-- she has one excellent foot and the other, a fused toe--but it's a badly fused 4th and 5th. I can take a picture of her feet tomorrow to show you. Thoughts on that? Do you cull all toes even if they turn out with really good type.. or just breed them to a bird that has perfect toes?? See, I really need breeding advice.

We all have to remember that there is no perfect bird. And even almost perfect throw crap sometimes. Im no pro but sometimes you have to go with your gut and not worry. The pros even gamble or stress about faults and imperfections. Try, spend money, spend money, try again. I think that is the poultry exhibition motto. We may even get lucky too.

 

[JoshU]

double post

 

[aoxa]

We all have to remember that there is no perfect bird.  And even almost perfect throw crap sometimes.  Im no pro but sometimes you have to go with your gut and not worry.  The pros even gamble or stress about faults and imperfections.  Try, spend money, spend money, try again.  I think that is the poultry exhibition motto.  We may even get lucky too.

 

[PNWGirl]

Thanks everyone, for your input regarding the chicks from a pet roo. Appreciate it!!

Sheila

 

[chisNchickens]

Nope, not split wing if all the feathers are there. Split wing ONLY refers to when the axial feather and follicle are missing. You could call it a loose wing, a weak wing, and if the primaries don't fold under the secondaries properly you could even call it a slipped wing. There's no definition for "weak wing" in the APA Standard of Perfection, so it can mean a number of things singly or several at the same time. That means your bird could have a slipped AND split wing at the same time, or a weak AND slipped wing. Wing issues can occur in combination, is basically what I am saying. I would call your bird's wing a weak wing because of the way the feathers grow in reverse directions and because the feathers appear twisted. I would possibly call it a slipped wing if I saw the way the bird holds the wing naturally and it didn't fold, with the primaries under the secondaries. But if all of the feathers are present, even if there is a gap, you can NOT call it a split wing. You are welcome to call it a gapped wing, a separated wing, or a messed up wing! But it's not "split wing" by definition unless that feather/follicle combo is missing. Hope this clarifies things.

This contradicts what is written on Hattrick's article on split wing and other info I have received. Hattrick specifically states it is NOT a missing feather, but rather a split in the direction of the feathers.
http://www.hattricksilkies.net/articles_split_wing.html