Silkie breeding, genetics & showing

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unless it's an incomplete and they have it somewhere in their background, or would I be wrong on that. But I've never heard of a chicken having angle wing-- I have raised waterfowl and that is the word we use for an excess of protein in the diet that usually results in the angel wing, which can then be taped and corrected. On chickens, this is not a matter of taping wings and correcting them so could the same term be used for something that is not caused by excess of protein in the diet. I do realize the look is sort of similar, but waterfowl wings usually really stick out from the body and these wings I am dealing with still lay flat against the body, but the tips of the feathers do curl outward a bit. This is only on the secondaries, of course. Whatever it is, I'm very frustrated to be having this problem. Very interesting observation about how the cock throws opposite on the wings. My rooster has no obvious signs of this slip, they are just weak. I'm definitely not using him again, for sure, and I hope that will solve my problem when I also get rid of the grow outs that are showing this trait as well. Not all of his offspring have had this problem, but a good number of them have. That would also likely make them carriers of this gene somewhere, too (even though it is not expressed in them)...??? I wonder how that will play out as I get further on. Sigh.
Look at those wings when they are folded. If the primaries fold outside the secondaries; it is a slipped wing. That's why the secondaries are curling. The primaries are rubbing the secondaries upward. I've tried to correct this in Silkies by taping, as I think you have, to no avail. You have to breed it out. Breeding birds, especially Silkies ,can be a case of"Chicken, or feathers" from year to year.
 
I knew it wasn't allowed but do they disqualify or deduct points?

Any attempt to alter the appearance of a bird might be deemed "faking" and is subject to DQ. The APA SOP states in regards to cutting feathers: "Shaft and web giving evidence of part of feather having been cut off."

So, bottom line -- don't cut feathers. One or two plucked feathers here or there probably wouldn't be noticed, but any evidence of plucking, particularly where the presence of those feathers might also be a DQ would be considered faking as well, such a plucking hard feathers on the hocks to eliminate an appearance of vulture hocks.

Hope this answers your question. :)
 
Angle wing in waterfowl and angel wing in chickens are not the same thing. In chickens, angel wing is twisted wing feathers; not that different than a sebastapol's feathers. The wing feathers do not stick out like on waterfowl.

There is no definition for "angel wing" in the SOP. Walt Leonard, who is Chairman of the Standard Review Committee, also confirmed that angel wing is NOT a term to be used in chickens but only in waterfowl, so anyone using the term is doing so incorrectly. "Twisted feather" is a term that does appear in the SOP and I believe it refers to the type of feather/wing you are describing. :)
 
Any attempt to alter the appearance of a bird might be deemed "faking" and is subject to DQ. The APA SOP states in regards to cutting feathers: "Shaft and web giving evidence of part of feather having been cut off."

So, bottom line -- don't cut feathers. One or two plucked feathers here or there probably wouldn't be noticed, but any evidence of plucking, particularly where the presence of those feathers might also be a DQ would be considered faking as well, such a plucking hard feathers on the hocks to eliminate an appearance of vulture hocks.

Hope this answers your question. :)
Thanks, I just hate for these poor girls to live with such lack of visablity. Wishing there was a good solution....
 
ALSO, I had pretty much given up on this one, she looked like she had split wing and is an odd color. BUT... I would like another vote
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I noticed she has feathers coming in where the splits are in her wings, and her conformation (to me at least
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) looks good. I just saw someone else post a picture of one with the same coloring calling it a buff partridge, but she also has spots! So... The real question is, is it possible to get a buff partridge paint? Or maybe even a buff splash or something like that. Here are a bunch of pictures of her
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I would love to show her alongside Hachi my blue splash. How would I enter an odd color like hers is you think she could do well? I saw someone mention they are showing AOV.











Just hanging
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Genetically this bird could have a phenotype for splash and partridge. Can you call her that as a variety? Technically, no. There was actually a really good discussion on the ASBC site some months ago in response to an article that appeared in the Poultry Press. I believe the title of the article was something like, "AOV: Ain't a Variety", and the premise of the article was that unless a color pattern is recognized in some breed of chicken it cannot be used to show as AOV. To show AOV your bird must be recognized in some color form in another breed, or it should at least be a color variety that is being worked on by many people and breeds true. So, for example, Porcelain is a recognized color variety in certain breeds (like D'Uccles), but b/c the coloring of a Silkie "Porcelain" does not meet that standard description it can't be shown as AOV -- at least, not if it is called "Porcelain" (lots of other names have been thrown about). But not all judges follow the concept of AOV so tightly. You could certainly try showing your bird as a "Splash Partridge", but it is entirely possible it would be DQ'd since no such variety standard exists for that "color". On the other hand, you might have a judge who allows your bird to place, especially if the bird's type and condition are excellent. You have nothing to lose, in my opinion -- unless you would feel awkward at the possibility of being DQ'd. Regardless, this is a great topic for others to join in. I'm glad you brought it up. :)
 
Thanks, I just hate for these poor girls to live with such lack of visablity. Wishing there was a good solution....
Don't know if I'm right or wrong, but my opinion is that if you have snipped the feathers close to the eye for visibility and it is NOT obvious that they have been cut back (it looks fairly natural) then I think it would be fine. If it's not obvious, then I don't think you'd be DQ'd or deducted points. I have a rooster that can't hardly see at all. I haven't trimmed him yet, but it's been on my mind (when I think of it). He runs into the feeder and water all the time. His muffs need to be trimmed so he can walk straight. Anyway, if it looks obvious, I'm guessing you will be deducted, but not DQ'd. I've only been DQ'd for weight so far. It was a bit embarrassing, but whatever, I wouldn't have learned otherwise. I think we all need to just get out there and show and learn first hand!
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Genetically this bird could have a phenotype for splash and partridge. Can you call her that as a variety? Technically, no. There was actually a really good discussion on the ASBC site some months ago in response to an article that appeared in the Poultry Press. I believe the title of the article was something like, "AOV: Ain't a Variety", and the premise of the article was that unless a color pattern is recognized in some breed of chicken it cannot be used to show as AOV. To show AOV your bird must be recognized in some color form in another breed, or it should at least be a color variety that is being worked on by many people and breeds true. So, for example, Porcelain is a recognized color variety in certain breeds (like D'Uccles), but b/c the coloring of a Silkie "Porcelain" does not meet that standard description it can't be shown as AOV -- at least, not if it is called "Porcelain" (lots of other names have been thrown about). But not all judges follow the concept of AOV so tightly. You could certainly try showing your bird as a "Splash Partridge", but it is entirely possible it would be DQ'd since no such variety standard exists for that "color". On the other hand, you might have a judge who allows your bird to place, especially if the bird's type and condition are excellent. You have nothing to lose, in my opinion -- unless you would feel awkward at the possibility of being DQ'd. Regardless, this is a great topic for others to join in. I'm glad you brought it up. :)
I have thought about this a little bit. I personally feel that if it is a color that is accepted in other breeds, then it falls into the AOV. But if it's really an "oops" color that happened to wind up on a very typey and beautiful bird... I feel it's just a shame, I guess but I wouldn't think of breeding it. I don't think I would show a bird that wasn't sporting an already accepted color-- like Columbian or any of the other project colors. Definitely not an accepted color for silkies (columbian), but it sure is beautiful on other breeds. I personally love that color. I'm not particularly fond of the new "Calico" in silkies that was created from a big "oopsie" of Splash with tons of gold leakage. It's not a color on any other breed, and it just looks like a big leakage mistake. (and I know people love this 'color'-- so it's just my opinion here) Maybe if enough people work with it and they get the numbers behind it, then okay, I get it. But for right now, I feel like an artist has muddied up the colors and just "went with it" instead of washing it out and starting over. I guess I follow the more traditional path of sticking to standard colors. Especially when dealing with colors that are encouraging leakage. Having helped my dad breed WCB Polish for years, ONE white body feather can mess up an otherwise perfect bird. He would never have dreamed of breeding such a bird. He was all about the ethics of keeping breeding clean. So it just goes against everything I've been taught, to do something like that.
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Don't know if I'm right or wrong, but my opinion is that if you have snipped the feathers close to the eye for visibility and it is NOT obvious that they have been cut back (it looks fairly natural) then I think it would be fine. If it's not obvious, then I don't think you'd be DQ'd or deducted points. I have a rooster that can't hardly see at all. I haven't trimmed him yet, but it's been on my mind (when I think of it). He runs into the feeder and water all the time. His muffs need to be trimmed so he can walk straight. Anyway, if it looks obvious, I'm guessing you will be deducted, but not DQ'd. I've only been DQ'd for weight so far. It was a bit embarrassing, but whatever, I wouldn't have learned otherwise. I think we all need to just get out there and show and learn first hand!
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I think I will try to show them trimmed rather than make them live with such limited visability or maybe just not show at all...
 

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