Silkie breeding, genetics & showing

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thedragonlady said:
Both APA and ABA are pretty clear on SPLIT wings. I think you are confusing them with SLIPPED wings, a much more common problem in
Silkies with the primariary feathers on the wing folding OUTSIDE the secondarary feathers. Any time you see an upward curl in the primary wing feathers, don't nit pick, BEWARE.
Click to expand...

Here's what I mean about a discrepancy in the definitions:

ABA Standard definition for Split Wing "A wing so irregularly formed as to show a decided gap between primaries and secondaries, or primaries overlapping in reverse order." (P. 279) Here it seems to include both a definition for split wing AND slipped wing.

APA SOP definition for Split Wing: "One in which there is a distinct gap between the primary and secondary feathers, resulting from the permanent absence of a feather [and its corresponding follicle]...." (P. 12)

Where the two differ, and I have had many conversations about these definitions with numerous judges, including Walt Leonard, Chairperson of the APA Standards Committee, is that the APA SOP refers to the cause as being a missing axial feather. The ABA standard only refers to an obvious gap, regardless of whether or not there is a permanently missing feather. The distinction, in my mind, is that one is a genetic cause and the other has multiple causes (poor condition, molting, broken or temporarily missing feathers, etc.)

So, when there is a degree of difference between the two -- the SOP supposedly being a DQ only for the missing feather/follicle, and the ABA standard being a DQ for any gap -- which one do you go with? Obviously, I mean to consider this in terms of exhibiting bantam breeds only.

Hopefully you see what I'm talking about. This may seem like a trivial issue, but it's got more than a few of us questioning the true meaning of the term "split wing" versus how the term is used in everyday chicken conversations. LOL
 
Me & Jack said:
Here's what I mean about a discrepancy in the definitions:

ABA Standard definition for Split Wing "A wing so irregularly formed as to show a decided gap between primaries and secondaries, or primaries overlapping in reverse order." (P. 279) Here it seems to include both a definition for split wing AND slipped wing.

APA SOP definition for Split Wing: "One in which there is a distinct gap between the primary and secondary feathers, resulting from the permanent absence of a feather [and its corresponding follicle]...." (P. 12)

Where the two differ, and I have had many conversations about these definitions with numerous judges, including Walt Leonard, Chairperson of the APA Standards Committee, is that the APA SOP refers to the cause as being a missing axial feather. The ABA standard only refers to an obvious gap, regardless of whether or not there is a permanently missing feather. The distinction, in my mind, is that one is a genetic cause and the other has multiple causes (poor condition, molting, broken or temporarily missing feathers, etc.)

So, when there is a degree of difference between the two -- the SOP supposedly being a DQ only for the missing feather/follicle, and the ABA standard being a DQ for any gap -- which one do you go with? Obviously, I mean to consider this in terms of exhibiting bantam breeds only.

Hopefully you see what I'm talking about. This may seem like a trivial issue, but it's got more than a few of us questioning the true meaning of the term "split wing" versus how the term is used in everyday chicken conversations. LOL
Click to expand...
The APA standard was written first. Years ago, most people who got into bantams had already shown LargeFowl.They understood about wings. Does it really matter if the problems with Silkie wings are due to being slipped, or split? They are BOTH DQs ! Silkies are supposed to be able to fly. Not so much, but enough to get up to a roost.

I found over the years that true SPLIT wings are not terribly common in Silkies, but SLIPPED wings are rampant .The only way to knock out this breed defect is to simply stop breeding Silkies with any wing faults, and not to split hairs about it. The problem is getting WORSE friends, not better.Fully half of the Silkies I see posted on BYC have bad wings!

I love the fact that more Silkies are being bred now , but I hate to see such a common fault in the breed taking over.
 
Sonoran Silkies said:
Quote: Cuckoo is the pattern of messy barring. Without a specified descriptor, it is with white bars. By adding the word blue as a descriptor, you now have a blue bird with white bars.

Isn't cuckoo typically a blue feather with white bars? Like the Barred Rock - which is obviously barred rather than cuckoo but still the same barring gene. Just wondering how you would know it was a "blue cuckoo" v just a plain old cuckoo. I guess you can add the barring gene to any colour? Do we have black barred or cuckoo birds? (I'm going to have to get my books out again ....
smile.png
)
Click to expand...
 
thedragonlady said:
The APA standard was written first. Years ago, most people who got into bantams had already shown LargeFowl.They understood about wings. Does it really matter if the problems with Silkie wings are due to being slipped, or split? They are BOTH DQs ! Silkies are supposed to be able to fly. Not so much, but enough to get up to a roost.

I found over the years that true SPLIT wings are not terribly common in Silkies, but SLIPPED wings are rampant .The only way to knock out this breed defect is to simply stop breeding Silkies with any wing faults, and not to split hairs about it. The problem is getting WORSE friends, not better.Fully half of the Silkies I see posted on BYC have bad wings!

I love the fact that more Silkies are being bred now , but I hate to see such a common fault in the breed taking over.
Click to expand...
Is slipped wing truly a genetic defect or is it due to a bird being fed too much protein while growing? I have heard both. What are your thoughts?

Has anyone else heard this?
 
One of my pullets in my juvenile BBS pen has started laying. My breeding hens have been moved to the barn and put under lights, so I wasn't sure if the egg I found was one that I had missed from them. Sure enough, I found another one yesterday (in the nestbox) this time and it was still warm. I had just missed it and I will have to stalk them today to see who it is! I am hoping it is my pretty little "true" blue or my splash that I showed you guys pictures of a couple of weeks ago. Either way, they are both pretty and correct. Yay!
 
I have heard of more than a few breeders will clip the primary feathers on younger birds to take the weight off of the wing tip, and allow the muscle to learn to tuck in naturally.
However, I don't know if it is covering up a defect, or helping to correct the wing muscle...
Different breeders have different feelings on this.
 

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