Silkie thread!

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote: I would expect to. Either the wing will droop and the primaries will hang down showing the split, or it will not droop and the primaries will fold on top of, rather than under, the secondaries.

 

[littlecritters]

Quote: Originally Posted by littlecritters Quote: Originally Posted by peepblessed Somehow I am missing some section in the club. I thought I had seen everything. Obviously not!! Re: ASBC website...I don't think the info is clearly identified on the site. I believe you have to go to Galleries, then select Albums and then look through those individual albums. For example, there is an album with toe/foot pics posted by a variety of members with corresponding comments. The albums I have seen so far, appear to be critiques of photos rather than illustrated lessons. I am a visual person and relying on the written Standard of Perfection (SOP) is just not enough for me. When I saw the pics in the toe album, it was an "aha" moment and it was vey helpful. So, I am slowly working my way through the albums to develop an educated eye. I'd like to comment (but not start a conflict) ....that I have found it very difficult to find good quality silkie chicks or adults for sale. If I find a roo, there are no hens of the right color....if I find a roo, then there are no corresponding hens... if I find chicks, then they have the wrong number of toes. And of the 7 lovely little chicks we did purchase, it looks like 5 are little roos. I am very understanding of the time, expense and energy involved in breeding and certainly don't expect breeders to part with their best birds. But, it's amazing how much work goes into trying to find chicks or pullets that don't have DQ's. It can get very discouraging. Re: the discussion of PQ, BQ and SQ, lt would be really nice if someone could come up with a common set of terms to use. Sometimes, I wish we used pedigrees in chicken breeding and gave breeders an option to "register" chickens with the ABSC that meet the SOP. Each registered bird could be toe punched by a special evaluator and receive ASBC registration papers. That way, when seeking stock...a buyer could choose between unregistered stock, registered stock and registered show stock. Buyers could review registration papers and see exactly what relatives in the pedigree were show winners, points champions etc. I know some may consider this more work for breeders, but it gives a framework for breeders to work within. That's just my thought...as a potential breeder myself.... I hope it doesn't offend any of the breeders on here. I have on more than one occasion had a bird receive excellent ratings under one judge and be DQed under a different one at a later date. I don't think that is all that unique...just part of showing. At one show I had one bird who is "ok" judged as far better than birds that ARE far better. So how would that fare into your system? I just don't see it as practical; it would create a huge amount of effort for both the breeder and the club officers, who are all volunteers. If you look at the number of chicks raised per year, that adds in a HUGE amount of work, and I for one am not willing to do it. If I did, I would have to double or triple my prices, and mine are not all that extravagant, but if doubled or tripled, they sure would be. A few pages ago I stated that most exhibitors do not sell chicks or eggs, and that Fall through winter is when they tend to have birds available. This has been my experience for quite a few years, and across all breeds. Yes, there are some exhibitors and breeders who sell chicks or eggs, but most do not. Read Poultry Press and look through the ads. Join the club and look at who is winning larger shows and has well-known names (same for Poultry Press; there are a number of really excellent silkie breeders who do not want to deal with the political nonsense occurs in the club all too often). If you have a variety for which you have a passion, ask here who are some of the best breeders, and then contact them and ask when they will have birds available; be very specific on what you are looking for, but don't be so overeager that you turn them off from wanting to sell to you. Sometimes proven older birds are a better deal than this years potential show stoppers. A two or three or even 4 year old silkie is usually far from being past production. Birds with excellent type and colouring, but easily bred out faults or DQs (toes, for example) are often easy to find, and while that bird may not be showable, if you breed to a bird without the fault, you might well get some really nice offspring.

Sonoran...Well, I just typed an intelligent, articulate response to this post....and the computer shut down! So, I would just like to say that my experiences with the world of silkies may be very different from yours and other folks on this thread. I have a significantly handicapped daughter who has fallen in love with silkies (and polish) and would like to breed and show. To facilitate my daughters dreams, I am trying to learn as possible by joining poultry clubs, reading thousands of pages of posts on BYC, systematically going through articles on breeders and club websites, and researching breeding strategies such as line breeding, spiral/rotational breeding etc....all in hopes of understanding and developing a small scale breeding program that may become the basis for our family effort. Honestly, we may not ever produce gorgeous show birds....but I'm going to do my best to provide my daughter with a positive experience and bring some joy to her life. I have had the pleasure of dealing with three wonderful breeders and look forward to continuing to a great relationship with all of them. So, before I crawl back into the woodwork.....I would just add that the system I proposed above is used successfully by ARBA (American Rabbit Breeders Association). It may never work in the poultry world, but sometimes bringing in new and different ideas can spark innovation. Regards, Tina

 

[CALI CHICK]

Quote: Originally Posted by littlecritters Quote: Originally Posted by peepblessed Somehow I am missing some section in the club. I thought I had seen everything. Obviously not!! Re: ASBC website...I don't think the info is clearly identified on the site. I believe you have to go to Galleries, then select Albums and then look through those individual albums. For example, there is an album with toe/foot pics posted by a variety of members with corresponding comments. The albums I have seen so far, appear to be critiques of photos rather than illustrated lessons. I am a visual person and relying on the written Standard of Perfection (SOP) is just not enough for me. When I saw the pics in the toe album, it was an "aha" moment and it was vey helpful. So, I am slowly working my way through the albums to develop an educated eye. I'd like to comment (but not start a conflict) ....that I have found it very difficult to find good quality silkie chicks or adults for sale. If I find a roo, there are no hens of the right color....if I find a roo, then there are no corresponding hens... if I find chicks, then they have the wrong number of toes. And of the 7 lovely little chicks we did purchase, it looks like 5 are little roos. I am very understanding of the time, expense and energy involved in breeding and certainly don't expect breeders to part with their best birds. But, it's amazing how much work goes into trying to find chicks or pullets that don't have DQ's. It can get very discouraging. Re: the discussion of PQ, BQ and SQ, lt would be really nice if someone could come up with a common set of terms to use. Sometimes, I wish we used pedigrees in chicken breeding and gave breeders an option to "register" chickens with the ABSC that meet the SOP. Each registered bird could be toe punched by a special evaluator and receive ASBC registration papers. That way, when seeking stock...a buyer could choose between unregistered stock, registered stock and registered show stock. Buyers could review registration papers and see exactly what relatives in the pedigree were show winners, points champions etc. I know some may consider this more work for breeders, but it gives a framework for breeders to work within. That's just my thought...as a potential breeder myself.... I hope it doesn't offend any of the breeders on here. I have on more than one occasion had a bird receive excellent ratings under one judge and be DQed under a different one at a later date. I don't think that is all that unique...just part of showing. At one show I had one bird who is "ok" judged as far better than birds that ARE far better. So how would that fare into your system? I just don't see it as practical; it would create a huge amount of effort for both the breeder and the club officers, who are all volunteers. If you look at the number of chicks raised per year, that adds in a HUGE amount of work, and I for one am not willing to do it. If I did, I would have to double or triple my prices, and mine are not all that extravagant, but if doubled or tripled, they sure would be. A few pages ago I stated that most exhibitors do not sell chicks or eggs, and that Fall through winter is when they tend to have birds available. This has been my experience for quite a few years, and across all breeds. Yes, there are some exhibitors and breeders who sell chicks or eggs, but most do not. Read Poultry Press and look through the ads. Join the club and look at who is winning larger shows and has well-known names (same for Poultry Press; there are a number of really excellent silkie breeders who do not want to deal with the political nonsense occurs in the club all too often). If you have a variety for which you have a passion, ask here who are some of the best breeders, and then contact them and ask when they will have birds available; be very specific on what you are looking for, but don't be so overeager that you turn them off from wanting to sell to you. Sometimes proven older birds are a better deal than this years potential show stoppers. A two or three or even 4 year old silkie is usually far from being past production. Birds with excellent type and colouring, but easily bred out faults or DQs (toes, for example) are often easy to find, and while that bird may not be showable, if you breed to a bird without the fault, you might well get some really nice offspring.

I agree whole-heartedly, especially about the part that "it is difficult to find good, quality silkie chicks..."! "At an affordable price, that is!"

I am very fortunate to live within an hour of a silkie breeder that wins a LOT of the California shows. I think Stockton is her main event. A year ago, I picked up my first 4 chicks from her, crossing my fingers that "they" would turn into gorgeous, show winning silkies. Welllllll, they didn't!! As a matter of fact, they were all roosters and I considered giving up on raising silkies for showing. I guess they would have been fine for my son to use in 4H showmanship, but I quickly realized that you don't just stumble upon a breeder that is going to give you her best chicks. I have the feeling that she (like any breeder who shows) goes though and pulls all the babies that have potential! Another thing I realized was that the cheapest way and most likely way for ME to get good, quality silkies was to buy the eggs from SQ parents.
First, I tried shipped eggs from a reputable breeder in Georgia and still have 2 of my hatchlings (now 22 wks old.)

Then, I went back to Sherie's house and got a dozen fertile eggs. These eggs were layed by the same chickens that are winning shows. Still, out of 10 hatched chicks I'm not sure if any would win shows, but I think I have a couple that can be used for breeding. Of course, these chicks are only 3 months old. My next plan is to get more hatching eggs and hope to build a nice BBS breeding pen. Then someday, I hope

to have some top winning silkies.

I'm excited to go to the California State Fair and check out the open poultry competition -next weekend. I would so love it, if I could over-hear a judges critic, especially on the silkies.

 

[4hchickmama]

I agree whole-heartedly, especially about the part that "it is difficult to find good, quality silkie chicks..."! "At an affordable price, that is!"

I am very fortunate to live within an hour of a silkie breeder that wins a LOT of the California shows. I think Stockton is her main event. A year ago, I picked up my first 4 chicks from her, crossing my fingers that "they" would turn into gorgeous, show winning silkies. Welllllll, they didn't!! As a matter of fact, they were all roosters and I considered giving up on raising silkies for showing. I guess they would have been fine for my son to use in 4H showmanship, but I quickly realized that you don't just stumble upon a breeder that is going to give you her best chicks. I have the feeling that she (like any breeder who shows) goes though and pulls all the babies that have potential! Another thing I realized was that the cheapest way and most likely way for ME to get good, quality silkies was to buy the eggs from SQ parents.
First, I tried shipped eggs from a reputable breeder in Georgia and still have 2 of my hatchlings (now 22 wks old.)

Then, I went back to Sherie's house and got a dozen fertile eggs. These eggs were layed by the same chickens that are winning shows. Still, out of 10 hatched chicks I'm not sure if any would win shows, but I think I have a couple that can be used for breeding. Of course, these chicks are only 3 months old. My next plan is to get more hatching eggs and hope to build a nice BBS breeding pen. Then someday, I hope

to have some top winning silkies.

I'm excited to go to the California State Fair and check out the open poultry competition -next weekend. I would so love it, if I could over-hear a judges critic, especially on the silkies.

Hey I believe I got my birds from the same person as you. I'm in Rocklin. Nice to find other people close by! We were actually entered in the California state fair in the Junior competition this week, but didn't end up going....I had a moulting-half-naked bird, and decided against it.

 

[CALI CHICK]

Hey I believe I got my birds from the same person as you. I'm in Rocklin. Nice to find other people close by! We were actually entered in the California state fair in the Junior competition this week, but didn't end up going....I had a moulting-half-naked bird, and decided against it.

That's awesome. Did you buy chicks or hatching eggs? Was it a silkie that was molting? (poor thing) My son almost did 4H showmanship this year but we missed the deadline. Wish I had been more diligent. It is such a good experience and learning opportunity.

 

[2hot2chicken]

Help buff silkie breeders. I recently hatched some eggs in a new incubator, reptipro 6000. Had a good experience with it. I started with Ameraucana eggs and out of 18 eggs, 17 started to develop so I moved them into a different bator and set silkies. I got 2 dozen eggs from a well known silkie breeder I won't name. They had a rough ride during shipping and 1 egg was broken. More than half were clear and never developed for one reason or another, likely shipping...?....

So anyway I have 6 fluff little chicks, 2 partridge eggs, 3 buff eggs, 1 black egg hatched over the last 2.5 days.

2 questions:

1. 2 of the buff chicks are so light and clear I am thinking they will be pretty clean with no smut, 1 of them however has very light colored pinkish feet and only 4 toes on each foot..... I know extra toes can be caused by bator temps but can less toes and light skin also or is that always hereditary?
I had 1 partridge hatch thats super fluffy, probly the fluffiest 1 day old I have ever seen and its vaulted to, but it has 4 toes as well........

2. The 3rd buff chick hatched out a color I have never seen before. Egg was marked buff.
Chick is a grayish/black on its back and sides with a little light buff color on its feet, face, butt and belly....Think of a siamese cat with points?
Could this change with first moult into a buff or is it a very smutty loss....?

I am really not having any luck with buffs..... : ( cannot seem to get anything even decent to start with! I have lost a bunch of eggs due to 1 very warm day and an A/C that quit on me, been screwed by 2 well known/famous breeders that were supposed to send me buff chicks but sent me other colors instead..... Now this......
Do I contact the breeder? I understand the losses but this person is supposed to have famous bloodlines and be one of the best.....
I paid a lot of $$$ for these eggs and I understand the shipping and 4 DIS (dead in shell) but to have the rest all have severe flaws like this?

Could it just be my bad luck???? or something I did???? Or is this flaws from some bad breeder birds???? I find it fishy I got 2 different colors with bad toes......

Thanks for the advice : ) Its much appreciated!!!!

 

[aoxa]

That has its own problems--people purchasing from a known breeder/exhibitor expect that the birds they purchase come from the show flock, not an "extra" flock whose purpose is bird sales.  When someone wants to purchase from me, my first question is always "tell me what you are looking for."  

That's exactly what he does. When he heard I was looking for quality, he said to wait until fall and he will sell me started pullets that are SQ. He is very open and honest about what is for sale.

I did not purchase any of his chicks. I'm waiting for fall

 

[aoxa]

Does anyone have any advice for this situation:

Right now I have 3 hens and a roo. I see my roo mate all three regularly, yet one is laying eggs that are not fertile. The other hen lays a fertile egg every single day (correction, every single time ). Could the hen laying the unfertilized eggs be too fluffy around the vent and not making proper contact? She has laid fertile eggs before she went broody. I collected eggs for two weeks and not a single egg is showing growth and we are at day 15 (I tossed a lot earlier - day 7). Any help is appreciated. Though she went broody after a two week break lol.

 

[Hawkeye95]

Help buff silkie breeders. I recently hatched some eggs in a new incubator, reptipro 6000. Had a good experience with it. I started with Ameraucana eggs and out of 18 eggs, 17 started to develop so I moved them into a different bator and set silkies. I got 2 dozen eggs from a well known silkie breeder I won't name. They had a rough ride during shipping and 1 egg was broken. More than half were clear and never developed for one reason or another, likely shipping...?....

So anyway I have 6 fluff little chicks, 2 partridge eggs, 3 buff eggs, 1 black egg hatched over the last 2.5 days.

2 questions:

1. 2 of the buff chicks are so light and clear I am thinking they will be pretty clean with no smut, 1 of them however has very light colored pinkish feet and only 4 toes on each foot..... I know extra toes can be caused by bator temps but can less toes and light skin also or is that always hereditary?
I had 1 partridge hatch thats super fluffy, probly the fluffiest 1 day old I have ever seen and its vaulted to, but it has 4 toes as well........

2. The 3rd buff chick hatched out a color I have never seen before. Egg was marked buff.
Chick is a grayish/black on its back and sides with a little light buff color on its feet, face, butt and belly....Think of a siamese cat with points?
Could this change with first moult into a buff or is it a very smutty loss....?

I am really not having any luck with buffs..... : ( cannot seem to get anything even decent to start with! I have lost a bunch of eggs due to 1 very warm day and an A/C that quit on me, been screwed by 2 well known/famous breeders that were supposed to send me buff chicks but sent me other colors instead..... Now this......
Do I contact the breeder? I understand the losses but this person is supposed to have famous bloodlines and be one of the best.....
I paid a lot of $$$ for these eggs and I understand the shipping and 4 DIS (dead in shell) but to have the rest all have severe flaws like this?

Could it just be my bad luck???? or something I did???? Or is this flaws from some bad breeder birds???? I find it fishy I got 2 different colors with bad toes......

Thanks for the advice : ) Its much appreciated!!!!

I don't breed Buff, but I don't think as a newly hatched chick you will be able to tell if they will have smut or undesirable leakage. I know I can't in my own birds. You'll need to wait to see how they grow out. Without seeing a photo of the chick you are wondering about-- the color issue, there is no way I can comment on that.

Having flaws in chicks comes with the territory. You can hatch out 30 chicks, and get maybe a good 3-5 that are really worth something. Maybe more if you get lucky and you have a trio or whatever it is you are working with that just happens to be on a roll throwing good chicks. The odds are not in your favor when you buy a dozen eggs and hatch them and THEN only get a few of those to hatch. Having light colored feet-- that's not good. The chick should at the very least be dark. But Buff is a very tough color to work with. I see a lot of red combs on buffs and it just seems that it could have more issues than another color. ALSO-- as Sonoran pointed out, just because they have winning show birds, does NOT mean they are selling you eggs from that winning flock. Most breeders who sell eggs have an entirely different pen set up with decent birds and they sell their eggs from THAT pen. It's likely you think you bought something that you did not. In which case, you need to be more specific in your questions when asking the breeder if you are buying eggs from his nice birds or out of another pen. Now, to the heart of the matter... do you have any recourse? I don't think so. When you buy eggs from a breeder, they are VERY careful about stating that when the eggs leave their hands, they are no longer responsible for the condition the eggs meet in route to your home. The PO can be very rough. I have gotten eggs and NONE hatched-- because of the PO. It's a gamble and that's the way it works. It's heartbreaking, for sure. You could ask this breeder which pen your eggs came from. But as for asking for a refund or having any other demands--- absolutely not. But finding out which pen your eggs came out of, that would be a resonable question. ALTHOUGH... this is something you should have asked ahead of time, so the breeder may not take so well to being quizzed like that.

And here's my best advice for you. If you want better birds, then wait till Fall and buy a couple of started birds. Buy the best you can afford-- they should be right around $50-80 a piece. When buying the bird, check off your needs-- like correct color, wings, etc. Toes you can breed out. But I'd be more concerned with color and type and wings and crest. I'd still try to find one with good toes, but these breeders are selling off birds that don't fit into their goals, so these birds will NOT be show quality. But they could be a good breeding bird when paired with the right bird. It's the same with me-- I will be selling off started birds this Fall when I can see what I have, but I'm keeping the best for me. So keep that in mind when you are dealing with them and try to be reasonable and realize you are going to have to start out with the best you can get and work from there. This is what I've done. I have some good birds that I think I can work with and continue to cull hard to get somewhere with.... but I don't have that drop dead gorgeous SQ bird YET. I have really nice ones-- but nothing that looks like, say, Sonoran's bird in her avatar.

Does anyone have any advice for this situation:
Right now I have 3 hens and a roo. I see my roo mate all three regularly, yet one is laying eggs that are not fertile. The other hen lays a fertile egg every single day (correction, every single time

). Could the hen laying the unfertilized eggs be too fluffy around the vent and not making proper contact? She has laid fertile eggs before she went broody. I collected eggs for two weeks and not a single egg is showing growth and we are at day 15 (I tossed a lot earlier - day 7). Any help is appreciated. Though she went broody after a two week break lol.

I'm guessing it's probably the fluff getting in the way. I would trim your roo back and if you are worried about your girl, trim her up too. Keep in mind once you trim, that it will be like that for several months. So if you are planning on showing them, I wouldn't trim. I ended up having to do AI with my birds this year because I didn't want to trim them.

 

[aoxa]

I'm guessing it's probably the fluff getting in the way.  I would trim your roo back and if you are worried about your girl, trim her up too.  Keep in mind once you trim, that it will be like that for several months.  So if you are planning on showing them, I wouldn't trim.  I ended up having to do AI with my birds this year because I didn't want to trim them.  

So it's possible that's the reason? She is quite fluffy around that area My roo is fine. She's broody again, so when she is getting back to it, I'll trim.