Silkie thread!

[BuckNBark Farm]

The lower one is a tad lighter in real life- and her wing is also not showing- it's the buff color like the body.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote: Well, I said two copies because each bird has a pair of genes - one from each parent. If they get a copy from each parent then they have two copies. If they get it from only one parent then they have one copy (the other is "not lavender"). Recessive genes are only supposed to express when there are two copies. I think there may be exceptions - but that only makes it more confusing.

I think chicken genetics are more confusing in some ways than other genetics. I am still trying to learn them and I get things wrong because of that. What I was trying to say there is that they are two different genes - not the same gene. I recently learned a Paint bird is a bird with the Dominant White gene (can be only one copy and it works (think like a bucket of white paint dumped over a black bird - it didn't get everywhere - that's leakage and your black feathers)), and a White bird (in Silkies) is a bird with two copies of recessive white, and it has to have two copies to be White.

Oh, and I have seen that one gene can be "dominant" in expression over another gene (phenotype - what you see when looking at the bird). There is a lady who has both lavender and recessive white in her birds. She didn't know she had recessive white, she is breeding for lavender. If the bird gets two copies of both (because she is breeding lavender to lavender we know they have two copies of lavender) she gets a White bird. So recessive white shows in expression over lavender. That's what I was meaning - I wasn't sure if you had a bird with two copies of Blue ("splash") and two copies of lavender which color it would show. It might be a splash with lavender splotches?

I believe recessive white is dominant in expression over ever other color gene? Perhaps it is like recessive white is a paint stripper - it takes off all the paint the other genes could possibly put on with two coats - so nothing is there and the bird is White. Its not strong enough to strip the color with one coat, has to be double strength. Just like lavender, double strength or it won't show.

I don't know if that is clear as mud to you, I am still trying to find ways to know how to liken chicken genetics to something so I can related to it

The relationship between separate genes is not dominant or recessive. The proper terms are hypostatic and epistatic. All colour/pattern genes are hypostatic to recessive white. Recessive white is epistatic to all other colour/pattern genes. Two Z chromosomes (or I could say two copies of any gene on hte Z chromosome) is a male bird, and thus is epistatic to all egg laying genes. However, in most cases separate genes do not completely hide other genes. Lavender and blue are like this. Each displays some of its affects. In my experience, the blue gene is more apparent, because there are wider differences in expression and pattern than in self-blue. But, they both display. If there is any red or gold pigment, it will be significantly diluted by lavender, which would not happen with only blue (there would be a little dilution, but not a LOT). Likewise chocolate, dun and blue combine for variation in hue, rather than one overriding the other.

Recessive white prevents the formation of pigment, so there is no pigment to "paint" the feathers as they grow in. They are an empty canvas, even though the IDEA of what could/should be there is in the colour and pattern genes present in the bird. But it's pigment bucket is empty. Dominant white allows the creation of pigment, but the means by which it gets to the feather follicles is messed up. Following the above example of a bucket of paint, it is like the bucked has paint, but there are no brushes to apply it.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:

The vaulted skull has a lot to do with the crested gene - if they have two copies they have a chance of getting a vaulted skull. Some people think that is "proper" - I prefer not to have them because I do know the vaulted ones have holes and can have problems. I still haven't heard if the un-vaulted ones have holes...

NO. Vaulted skulls and crests are separate, although you do not find vaulted skull birds without a crest.

Vaulted skulls are very obvious on young chicks. They look like they have a ball on top of their heads. That ball is their skull that has been pushed up - or "vaulted" - like vaulted ceilings. I have heard when they get older you can't tell the vaulted ones from the un-vaulted if they are well crested so I really don't see any benefit and only see drawbacks to having them.

Not exactly. The technical term is cerebral hernia, and the vault is the brain that expands outside the skull. As with babies who also have incomplete skulls at birth, as the bone grows together as the creature matures. MOST breeders do not select for either vaulted or non-vaulted, although I have seen it go in cycles. No one ever talks about polish having issues, but it is a breed REQUIREMENT that they have vaulted skulls, and their vaults tend to be far larger than silkie vaults!

Thank you for that information. I have heard of people saying their chick has a "proper" vaulted skull - so I was wondering if they were breeding towards it. If you have not seen a problem with them I won't worry so much about it.

Has there been any research done to see if a vaulted skull causes problems with hatching? I would sort of think having your brain outside your skull might make it hard to turn in those little shells and I have been having problems with hatching out the eggs from the pair that hatched the vaulted skull chick (dead in shell) - and no problems from the ones without the vaulted skulls..

Quote: Thank you for that information too, is this the un-named gene (or just not in the chicken calculator) that does it? Are these not going to be a "good" black if they are e^b based?

Also, on the two Partridge colored chick - one had very light (white) legs and feet and the other had dark "greenish" legs and feet and their beaks and skin are not "proper" black. They both are getting darker now, but it looked weird for a bit there, light skinned Silkies

The black chicks all have black legs, beaks, skin and feet. I think the e^Wh is the e-allele that usually expresses as light legs/feet at birth and darkening up as they get older (as I have seen in Ameraucanas). Can e^b do this also? The genetics are fascinating to me.
Not quite sure what you mean? e^b is one of the e-alleles (the most recessive, usually), and is in the calculator. According to Ron Okimoto (poultry genetics GURU), the best black silkies are probably birchen e-allele (E^R).

Yes, wheaten lightens skin (and combs). e^b combs and skin remain dark, unless affected by other genes. Barring and mottle lighten skin, as does blue (to a lesser extent).

 

[mckeesbackyard]

Hi! I live in the White Muntains of Arizina & new to the hobby. I'm looking for some good quality silkies--any breeders here in our state?

 

[ChickNmamma]

Not quite sure what you mean? e^b is one of the e-alleles (the most recessive, usually), and is in the calculator. According to Ron Okimoto (poultry genetics GURU), the best black silkies are probably birchen e-allele (E^R).

Yes, wheaten lightens skin (and combs). e^b combs and skin remain dark, unless affected by other genes. Barring and mottle lighten skin, as does blue (to a lesser extent).
Thank you for taking time to explain things to me. This really helps me figure out what is going on with the genotype and phenotypes in the birds I have.

Thank you for the explanation of relationships between different genomes. I am digesting it still. Not sure how it fits in with the Z chromosomes yet... I asked that question about color relationships before reading more about the Dun/Khaki and Platinum on the Sumatra thread.. very interesting! And I like that idea of the color paint in the bucket - but no brushes (except where the leakage is for dominant white.. one feather brush

).

I tried to use the genetics calculator and could not get a black bird using the e^b base. That's what I meant. I tried all sorts of different combinations, and no solid black birds. That's why I asked if there was a un-named genome or if it was just not in the calculator. Or maybe I just haven't tried the right combination yet. I just tried it with E^Wh and couldn't get black either... There must be something I am missing in this.

I doubt they are the best black then because E^R would have to be present in one parent or the other - and they are both Partridge. I was wondering if an e^b based black is an acceptable black - or is there always leakage, etc..

Hmm.. so are there any other genes that can turn e^b skin white/yellow when chicks are born but allows them to darken as they get older? Because my two little Partridge colored chicks - one had the light skin - and the other had darker but still "greenish" instead of the proper Silkie Black skin. Maybe I should take pictures, they are already getting darker than when they were hatched. That's why I was wondering if they were based on a different e-allele.

Since these chick's siblings are a very solid black with completely black skin, etc. I would guess blue is not present but it still may be there. I do not see any mottled skin pattern on either parent which would be present? with the mottle gene, and they are not barred so I think those two are not present. If there is something else that would cause almost white skin/legs/beak at hatch I would be interested to hear about it and any effects it might have. It seems to be getting darker now, but it was just weird.

I did know the E^Wh lightened skin because of the Ameraucana Wheatens will have light legs and beaks for awhile before they darken up to the proper color. Both of my chick's parents look dark, no red combs, but I guess they could be split for E^Wh, except I would expect it to show?

I will watch these two and see if their combs are lighter in color - because their skin was a lot lighter than what I was expecting for Silkie chicks when hatched and they are still lighter now.

Hopefully it will get black when they grow up, they are only 3 days old...

I hope I didn't confuse anybody with all this - just dog paddling trying to stay afloat here...

 

[PaintedFeathers]

Hi! I live in the White Muntains of Arizina & new to the hobby. I'm looking for some good quality silkies--any breeders here in our state?

Sonoran Silkies is in AZ. They posted one of the posts above yours.

 

[Sanna]

Since my 2 red silkies have red combs I know they are boys, so I decided to name them.

This is Maynard

Whoops! This one is Schism.

Very cute! How old are they?
I don't know much about reds but I'm pretty sure they're too light to be a red, which would make them both buffs.

 

[Suzierd]

Great news!  I got home yesterday evening to a raccoon in the trap I'd set.   The cat food and PB worked  like a charm!  DH carried him off.  I think there may be a second one.  The dogs were all in an uproar this morning with my retriever clawing at the little area by the woodpile where the coon was coming into the backyard.  To be safe I'm going to set the trap again tonight.  Thanks to all who gave advice and support.  I couldn't have done it without you.  .

Great news!

 

[howfunkyisurchicken]

hey yalll i have a problem broody. i am tryin to htach one of her eggs amd i dont have any other broody hen or invubator she will go broody on one egg but then rollit out and just sit on air i have no idea what she is trying to acomplish. is there anythinv ivcan do with her? tbanks in advance

What your set up? Is the in a nest box? If so, you could put a piece of board or some wire (bend it over at the top so it isn't sharp) across the opening of the nest box. Then she couldn't push them away.
One of my broodies builds the nesting material up pretty high around her when she's sitting. Occasionally she'd loose an egg (while turning, I assume). The egg would pop out the side and roll out of her box, and she wouldn't get up to get it. After I put some wire on the front of her box, I watched her turn her eggs. One popped out and rolled up against the wire and she reached right over and took it back. Maybe your hen is like mine, she just wont get up to retrieve her egg if its too far from the nest...

 

[Amalthea]

My grandmother wants to get some silkies, but before I got them I wanted to ask if they are friendly "out-going" birds. We love on our birds everyday and spend many hours of the day sitting and handling them, but some of our flock still does not like the attention. I recently got 2 frizzles (one was smooth but somehow counted as a frizzle...?) and they do not want to leave our side. I was wondering if the silkie breed is the same or is it just about the personality of the chicken.