Silkie thread!

[Hawkeye95]

I have a questions about fertility...

I have 1 Partridge pair, 1 buff pair, a white pen with 2 males & 1 female, and a BBS pen with 4 females & 2 males.

So for the past 3 weeks, they have been laying, but only the Partridge eggs are fertile. They eat the same food, so could all 4 cockerels be infertile? They are all the same age from the same hatch. I just hatched partridge chicks, and so far, up to last week, non of the other varieties eggs are fertile...

Any advice? They are eating 21% protein feed. And have vitamins in the water 24/7 with a little vinegar.

You never said how old they are. What are their cushions like? If they are quite large, you will have to cut them back. If they are just average, then I'd guess your cockerels are too young. I have a cockerel that has a very large cushion and there is NO way he will ever breed on his own without being cut back. Since I'm showing him right now, I'm simply doing AI with him. I have a couple of other cockerels and they are hatchery stock-- they are thrown in with my layers right now. They don't have much of a cushion and they are breeding machines and are able to fertilize eggs. (I'm not incubating their eggs, just notice our eating eggs are fertile.)

 

[Hawkeye95]

Okay, here we go!! I have toe pictures of the birds that produced this chick with the missing end knuckle with no toe nail. I also took a picture of the chick so you can see clearly what resulted in the pairing so far.
PS. please ignore the muddy feet-- it's been raining a lot.

My cockerel's feet/toes. (BELOW)

My Pullet's feet/toes (BELOW)

And for a better idea of what happened to their chick-- here is a picture of it's feet/toes (BELOW)

You can clearly see above that the last knuckle and toe nail is missing!! It's not too terribly short, but it's not good, either!

Sonoran, or BarnGoddess... SOS-- anyone? Any ideas on if the cockerel and pullet look okay, or is there an obvious problem? I will be hatching out more chicks from this pairing next week. Now, I'm really anxious to see if they have this issue as well.

 

[Hawkeye95]

This is my pairing:

Pullet

and here is my cockerel:

This has made me worry all day about the feet!!!

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Okay, here we go!! I have toe pictures of the birds that produced this chick with the missing end knuckle with no toe nail. I also took a picture of the chick so you can see clearly what resulted in the pairing so far.
PS. please ignore the muddy feet-- it's been raining a lot.

My cockerel's feet/toes. (BELOW)

My Pullet's feet/toes (BELOW)

And for a better idea of what happened to their chick-- here is a picture of it's feet/toes (BELOW)

You can clearly see above that the last knuckle and toe nail is missing!! It's not too terribly short, but it's not good, either!

Sonoran, or BarnGoddess... SOS-- anyone? Any ideas on if the cockerel and pullet look okay, or is there an obvious problem? I will be hatching out more chicks from this pairing next week. Now, I'm really anxious to see if they have this issue as well.

The parents toes do appear normal. Are you able to try breeding them with other birds? It would be helpful to separate the two of them as see if it is one or the other bringing the problem to the table or possibly even the combination of both.

I don't know how much Silkie breeders want to avoid this problem. So hopefully, Sonoran will respond as well. I know with Marans, we will often use the birds with short toes because we are still working on so many other things with the birds. I believe when showing with short toes like your chick's, it is a deduction but not a DQ with Marans. But Silkies are much more established as are their feathered legs so they may be less tolerant.

 

[marquisella]

I was thinking about that just now..The buff pair is a June hatch pullet with a year old rooster, the others all hatched in October, so they are just 6 months old. The Partridge cockerel that is fertile, is also frm the same 6 month hatch. But, now that I remember back, he was always more "manly" right from the beginning,so maybe he brothers are just slow.....
When you say cushion, I'm assuming you mean the feathers in front of his "manly part"? LOL

You never said how old they are. What are their cushions like? If they are quite large, you will have to cut them back. If they are just average, then I'd guess your cockerels are too young. I have a cockerel that has a very large cushion and there is NO way he will ever breed on his own without being cut back. Since I'm showing him right now, I'm simply doing AI with him. I have a couple of other cockerels and they are hatchery stock-- they are thrown in with my layers right now. They don't have much of a cushion and they are breeding machines and are able to fertilize eggs. (I'm not incubating their eggs, just notice our eating eggs are fertile.)

 

[ScaredOfShadows]

Okay, here we go!! I have toe pictures of the birds that produced this chick with the missing end knuckle with no toe nail. I also took a picture of the chick so you can see clearly what resulted in the pairing so far.
PS. please ignore the muddy feet-- it's been raining a lot.

My cockerel's feet/toes. (BELOW)




My Pullet's feet/toes (BELOW)



And for a better idea of what happened to their chick-- here is a picture of it's feet/toes (BELOW)

You can clearly see above that the last knuckle and toe nail is missing!! It's not too terribly short, but it's not good, either!

Sonoran, or BarnGoddess... SOS-- anyone? Any ideas on if the cockerel and pullet look okay, or is there an obvious problem? I will be hatching out more chicks from this pairing next week. Now, I'm really anxious to see if they have this issue as well.

This is called brachydactyly

It is VERY common in feather legged breeds, the gene that creates that shorter toe in my understanding kind of goes hand in hand with the same feather leg gene. It is NOT a DQ in the show ring for cochins or silkies or other feather leg breeds. It can be bred out by selective breeding over time, but its not a huge concern compared to type, skin color, toes, etc. some wonder if you try to breed the bachydactyly out if you may suffer loss of foot feathering over time as well. I will find some websites on it for you.

 

[Hawkeye95]

I was thinking about that just now..The buff pair is a June hatch pullet with a year old rooster, the others all hatched in October, so they are just 6 months old. The Partridge cockerel that is fertile, is also frm the same 6 month hatch. But, now that I remember back, he was always more "manly" right from the beginning,so maybe he brothers are just slow.....
When you say cushion, I'm assuming you mean the feathers in front of his "manly part"? LOL

Indeed, the cushion is all the "fluff" under his tail that will get in the way of him being able to breed well. It sounds like they might also be on the younger side. Maybe just give them a month or two more before you worry about it yet. After that, then I'd look into other reasons. (like the cushion)

 

[peepblessed]

I was thinking about that just now..The buff pair is a June hatch pullet with a year old rooster, the others all hatched in October, so they are just 6 months old. The Partridge cockerel that is fertile, is also frm the same 6 month hatch. But, now that I remember back, he was always more "manly" right from the beginning,so maybe he brothers are just slow.....
When you say cushion, I'm assuming you mean the feathers in front of his "manly part"? LOL
Quote:

My roo was 10 months before he was up to the task. My cockerel was 4 months. You just never know but definitely trim around the manley parts!

 

[peepblessed]

Indeed, the cushion is all the "fluff" under his tail that will get in the way of him being able to breed well. It sounds like they might also be on the younger side. Maybe just give them a month or two more before you worry about it yet. After that, then I'd look into other reasons. (like the cushion)

I feel so dumb because I thought the fluff in front of the tail was the cushion. Is it all cushion? I would love a good silkie chart as everything I find is for smooth chickens!

 

[Hawkeye95]

The parents toes do appear normal. Are you able to try breeding them with other birds? It would be helpful to separate the two of them as see if it is one or the other bringing the problem to the table or possibly even the combination of both.

I don't know how much Silkie breeders want to avoid this problem. So hopefully, Sonoran will respond as well. I know with Marans, we will often use the birds with short toes because we are still working on so many other things with the birds. I believe when showing with short toes like your chick's, it is a deduction but not a DQ with Marans. But Silkies are much more established as are their feathered legs so they may be less tolerant.

I do have another pullet I can pair my cockerel with-- but I was holding out on that one. Thank you for the advice and the critique of my bird's feet!

This is called brachydactyly

It is VERY common in feather legged breeds, the gene that creates that shorter toe in my understanding kind of goes hand in hand with the same feather leg gene. It is NOT a DQ in the show ring for cochins or silkies or other feather leg breeds. It can be bred out by selective breeding over time, but its not a huge concern compared to type, skin color, toes, etc. some wonder if you try to breed the bachydactyly out if you may suffer loss of foot feathering over time as well. I will find some websites on it for you.

I obviously need to do a lot more reading on this. I appreciate anything you can dig up for me! Considering this chick's toes... would this still be a potential breeder bird, or would it be a pet quality based on toes alone. I realize some people are going to be more picky, I just wonder what to do with it. I realize I can't keep all the chicks I hatch.. but if it ended up being perfect type, for example, if then the toes would be overlooked in favor for type at that point.